First coyote build,6mm-06)

[greenheadwoody]

This is my first post and my first build so I am asking for some help. I have a savage 25-06 LA donor rifle that I plan to rebarrel with a Shilen 28-30 inch 1X8 is some form of the 6mm bullet. I want to be able to shoot coyotes out to 500 yards. I plan to shoot the 87vmax and/or 105Amax. I currenty hunt with a 22-250,55 blitzkings), an AR15 223,60 nosler bt's), and a AR15 243wssm,87 vmaxs and 95 silver tips).

I have been leaning toward the 6mm-06 because it seems very easy to do and would give high velocity. What do you guys recommend on a long action,06) that will need to be a repeater using a 473 bolt head? I have looked at the 243, 6mm, and the 6x284 but I am not sure which way to turn. I am not that concerned with barrel life and like the higher velocity to keep the bullet shooting as flat as possible out to almost 400.

 

[dennisinaz]

If you want to build a 6mm like that I would suggest the 6x284 or the 6mm Rem imp. Both have reputations for excellent accuracy and will push a 6mm about as fast as you want to push it. I would probably use the 105s to take advantage of their wind resistance.

I am actually waiting on an action right now but my two choices are 6.5x284 or 6.5-06imp. Of you are going to use a long action, you might as well take advantage of the really good 6.5mm bullets.

All of these are hard on barrels but unless you are target shooting with it, they last long enough!

 

[nightowl]

Another option to consider is the .240 WBY. It is very close to the 6mm-'06 in terms of capacity and performance and is capable of superb accuracy. The pro's are that you don't have to do any case forming and the available brass is very high quality,Norma or Norma with Weatherby Headstamp). Not sure about RCBS, but Redding lists dies for it in Category C which should be somewhat cheaper than dies for the 6mm-'06 which are in the "Custom" category.

The cons are that the brass is typically expensive. Box of 20 with Wby headstamp runs at $1.50 per round but the way to go is to get the Norma bulk packed of 100 rounds,MidwayUSA has these) which will get the price down to about $1.30 a piece. Still not really cheap considering you can get Lapua -'06 brass for about $.93 a peice and Winchester .25-'06 is about half the price of the Lapua and easier to form for 6mm-'06. The other issue is that everyone I've ever talked to has said that Norma is typically softer than both Lapua and Winchester and will not handle the higher pressures as well,you'll probably see shiny ejector rings and primer pockets will loosen up sooner if you really push them hard). Then the case is belted too which turns some folks off, although I've never had any sizing issues with any belted cases that I've shot, including the .240 WBY.

 

[nightowl]

,continued - sorry this is so long-winded)
I've hunted groundhogs with a family member's Savage actioned .240 Wby Mag with a 1-in-9 twist and used both the 87 Vmax and 105 Amax. Both worked very well, but if I were to pick just one, it would be the 105 Amax. It seemed to buck wind better and hit with A LOT MORE authority. My personal opinion is that the big cases like the .240 Wby or the '06 are better suited for use of the heavier bullets, but the light bullets will also work great and you will get some crazy speeds. Either bullet will enable you to shoot well past your goal of reliably killing coyotes at 500 yards. Don't go slower than a 1-in-9 twist either if you are serious about using the heavier bullets.
A guy named Joel Russo uses and identical gun with 105 Berger VLD's running at about 3,400 fps with no pressure issues and great accuracy.
Hope this helps.

 

[MrMister]

Not to knock anyone's build or project but do you know what these calibers will do to a coyote?

If your looking to save fur think of something in the 20 - 224 range.

I shot a coyote with my 270 Win, I'm not sure if I'd get in trouble posting the picture or not but if you want to see a mess PM me.

 

[greenheadwoody]

Thanks for the replys. I looked last night and I have a die set for both the 6mm and the 240 Weatherby so that is at least a starting point. The brass for the 6X284,using Lupua 6.5-284)and 240 are both at or over a $1 per piece of brass so I am trying to decide if I want to go that route or use the cheaper brass of the 6mm. It seems that there will not be too much difference in velocity. I know I could use 284 win brass but I would still have to purchase the die set. The 6mm-06 is still an option also.

Do you guys think I will see that much difference in accuracy using rem or win brass instead of lupua or norma. I won't be target shooting with this gun but I wan't this to be my most accurate gun if possible. This is my first after market barrel. I have always just played with factory stuff until this point.

To MR: yes I know exactly what a high speed 6mm bullet will do to a coyote and that is why I use them. I have killed my share of coyotes, foxes, and bobcats with 6mm's. No fur sales in Texas, and we hunt contests at night with spotlights,legal in TX)so we must have quick clean kills. We call them bangflops. You can't track a coyote at night very well so you want them dead where they are hit. A 223 with 60-75 grain bullets kills them dead with good shot placement but the 223 cannot hold a candle to the 22-250 shooting 55 grain bullets fast. I had a few runners hunting during the day with 55 grain bullets using a 223. They died about 50-100 yards away which is ok during the day but at night you just lost the coyote or spend an hour trying to find it. I have smacked many coyotes and foxes with my 25-06,which is the gun I am building on) using 115 grain Nosler BT's. And yes I about ripped a red fox in half at 50 yards one time but that just part of the game. The 20's are normally fast but lack energy after 100 yards so you will get runners as well at least that is what I have heard from buddies that hunt with a 204. For me the game is 224 going fast and 6mm's = clean kills.

 

[alf]

What's wrong with the 25-06 you're already set up for?

In a 28" barrel, you'll probably see over 3300 fps with Berger's 115 VLD.

And no custom dies to fret over.

Al

 

[greenheadwoody]

Alf you make a good point that I guess I didn't condsider much because to the limited bullet choices. I like the 25-06 and think its a good caliber but I am scared to build a gun based on only using a few high BC bullets. With the 6mm there are many choices and surely one of the high BC bullets will shoot well. I really wanted to be able to shoot something with a .500 BC if possible which the 115,257) Berger would fit that bill but if that doesn't shoot well in the barrel then I back to the Nosler's or something else with around .400 which the 87 vmax already has. I guess I should consider just rebarreling in a 25-06. My head hurts... so many choices. Thanks for the opinions.

 

[6brxdude]

Greenheadwoody,
If this rifle build is a dedicated dog gun, then go with a round that uses Lapua brass as the parent case and forget about the unit price. Think about it for a minute, a box of 100 pieces of brass will probably last as long or longer than the barrel and calibers you're looking at. I just got back from a week long coyote hunt in Arizona and we hunted long and hard using the "run and gun" method along the freeway accesses over there. I don't think I got more than 10 shoots off the whole week. I've spent a total of 15 days hunting dogs this year and while it has been a bit slow, I don't think I've shot over 20 rounds in total. We usually hunt in pretty tight quarters where we're just out of shotgun range. I had the same problem with runners using my .223 with 55 grn bullets, so I'm switching to a 6 as well.

 

[alf]

In defense of the 25-06.....

I would get a 9" or 10" twist to shoot everything.,Rem are 10's)

Have you actually looked at the .25 bullet selection?
Besides Bergers, there's Hornady's in 110 and 117 SBT's
Nosler makes 85, 100, & 115 Ballistic Tips, plus 110 Accubonds.
Sierra and Speer make 120 SBT's. Plenty of higher B.C. choices to torch your barrel with.

You're talking about shooting coyotes at 400 & 500 yards. No matter which "flat shooting" cartridge you pick, you still won't be able to hold dead on. You're still gonna need a range finder and turrets, dots, or a varmint reticle to be consistant.
Plus, unless you're gonna shoot off the hood, I don't think I'd go much over a 26" barrel.

My factory Sendero in 25-06, with a 26" barrel, does 3600 with 85's, 3400 with 100's, and 3200 with the 115 Berger. And quite well I might add.

I've got a couple of 6-284's also, which I like as well. You really can't go wrong with any of your choices.

Al

 

[AckleymanII]

The whole issue of using heavy target bullets on yotes is not a good one especailly beyond 300 yards. At the extended ranges, very slow impact velocities, you will loose more yotes than you would like.

I have had two of the 6mm Rem AI's. The 70g Nosler BT is shooting a tiny group at 4150 fps. The heavier bullets will cause a more arc'd trajectory, and for yote hunters, that means that you unzip them. Shooting p. dogs at 700 was easy.

I think that a 1-12 twist with the 75g V Max is what you are looking for at 4100 fps out of a 6 Rem AI. Using R#19, the Sierra 80g Blitz BT at 3800 will clobber yotes at 500 and way beyond.

I shot chucks with heavy bullets a long time ago, I was not a happy camper! I have killed a lot of coyotes, and would never even consider shooting the bullets that you are talking about. I did not even like how the 80g Berger killed at 3500 fps.

A friend in Colorado has a cartridge that is very interesting which is a 22/6mm Rem. He is shooting the 75g V max at 3800f fps.

I had a good friend build a custom 25/06 using a 1-*12 twist Shilen barrel that is 26" long. I worked up a load for him that was 63.0g of R#25 with a fed 215 and a 100g Sierra sp. The load shot in the 3's at 3650 fps, and only had to neck size cases.

What ever you do, I suggest that you abandon target bullets and use design bullets that are designed to expand, and I have made many thousands of target bullets that I shot on P. dogs and chucks. I played around with all different sizes of HP to get my bullets to expand.

I still use my bullets on yotes in a 243 AI, and they do a great job. The 75g V Max opens up better at extended ranges along with the 70g Nosler BT.

Speed is the killer on yotes.

I have used custom 257 Weatherby's with zero freebore with the 100's at 3850. I am now shooting a custom 7 STW with zero freebore and the 120's doing 3850.

I worry that you are over thinking this project. Heck, even a 6/284 with the 80's doing 3700+ will dump yotes coyotes hard at 500.

There was an ole boy that was a predator control officer in Texas by the name of Harold Broughton. Harold has killed over 5000 coyotes with the mass of them being taken with the 220 Swift with the 52g Sierra's with a over book max dose of IMR 4064. He switched to the 257 AI which is the Roberts improved to get those yotes that hang up at 500, and last time I spoke to him, he was giddy over how well the rifle was doing with 100g Sierra's. Of course, the 257 AI is the ballistic twin of the 25/06, unless you use the loads that I listed above, which is the ballistic twin of the factory 257 Weatherby.

When the berger 105's first came out, I was first on the band wagon to shoot them...they punched holes through everthing unless I hit a shoulder.

I hunted Mexico for 12 years specifically for just yotes, we did a lot of bullet experimentation.

 

[RJinTexas]

I just finished working up a varmint load for my gunsmith's 240 Wby built on a 700 L/A. It will shoot sub .2 three shot groups @100, sub .5 at 200 and consistent sub 1.0 @ 300yds using Varget and pushing a 87gr Vmax at over 3450fps. The only problem is it heats up it's 28" #7 barrel after about ten rounds and that's not a good thing being he built it to be a long range P-dog rifle. If it were me I'd look at the 6mmAI with a no turn neck in 8tw which loves 87 Vmax's. One of my dog shooting buddies built one and it shot so well out to 600yds and beyond that I purchased his once used reamer and am having his smith chamber me a couple of new barrels. The great thing about the 6mmAI is it doesn't heat up a heavy barreled gun and the fire form loads shoot so accurate we just form brass in the dog towns no wasted ammo.

RJ

 

[CIA]

I have been shooting my 6-06 for a number of years. It is a 1-12 twist. I have shot everything up to 95 in it and I think it will shoot the the 105's as well. I like the 70 and 75 grain bullet for yodel dogs. At 4000 plus you don't have to worry about anything running off. easy to make brass, just run the 25-06 brass in a full length die and away you go. I have had my best luck with H4350 powder. The bad thing is you have about a 600 round barrel life so this is not a prairie dog gun. But it blows the crap out of them. Giblets everywhere. I bought a 25-06 s-die and only neck size. But you need a full length to neck them down.

 

[gatewood]

Dont look at your long action an a varmit gun problem. Especialy if you are going to shoot long vld 6mm bullets. if you want a repeater you are going to be at the mercy of the magazine in a short action. I recently just built a 243AI using a nesika long action model L just so I could easily extract a loaded round that had a 105gr bullet seated into the lands. stick with a 243AI or 6mmAI for your application speed kills. An 8twist will shoot the 88gr bergers great, they are the most acurate 600yd bullet out of my 243AI and will put what ever you point them at in a pile!!!!

 

[Rustystud]

Shooting Coyotes at long distances. Do you want a super explosive bullet that does not exit or a target bullet that exits with a small hole going in and coming out. There is an even more important issue to consider. Are you hunting in the desert, mountains or big agi-fields. Because bullet ricochett and back stops become an issue in the more urban coyote shooting. You are shooting a rifle that has the potential of shooting 3 miles. I think the supper explosive bullets is a much safer option. There are a good selection of 6mm bullets that fit this catagory.

Safe and successful hunting.
Rustystud

 

[toddconley]

The guys that have the 6mm06's. Can you get by with a 24 in barrel? Or would you bet better off with a reg ol 243 at that length. I am interested in the same build.
Thanks,
T