First 9mm Hand Loads

[siconic]

Hey guys!

After figuring out it was my die that was defective, I have now reloaded my first set of 9mm on the press. Along with this success, came a few questions in regards to tolerances, and possible pitfalls, or accidents. Attached are my first few rounds.

I am reloading 9mm assorted brass. I set up all the dies, but my first questions are about tollerances;

1. How can you tell you have a good crimp? Do I need to pull the bullets to be sure? (See pics for my crimp)

2. How important is getting the COL right on every time? I am reloading Egglestons 124gn, with 4.5gn of Hodgdons CFE. My COL should be 1.100 and most are within a few thousandths, but I am getting a variation with a low of 1.084 and a high of 1.112. Is this acceptable?

3. My powder measure (disk type) throws pretty consistently @ 4.52 grains, but I have seen a low of 4.33, which is below the minimum on the reloading chart. Is that acceptable? I know I would rather have it throw low than high.

4. Out of the 50 rounds I have made (I should have only made 10 for testing), 3 did not fit the case gauge, and made it almost all the way, but were a bit high. Can they still be fired?

5. The cases look a little smaller in diameter in the middle (see pictures, hourglass?). Is this normal, or do I need to resize them less? Maybe the die is out of spec?

My next set of questions comes about safety. I have been de-priming and priming on the RCBS Rock Chucker, and plan to continue that way instead of using the progressive. Just seems safer to me than using the progressive. All the horror stories I hear ( I have one friend who refuses to reload, and told me this was a bad idea) must be user error, overcharged, squib load, or damaged gun in the first place. But here are my questions;

1. How much do I need to actually worry about a kaboom? What can cause one? Is that a legitimate concern if you take your time, and make sure your load data is correct? 9mm is such a "small" round, and I am not shooting out of a Glock, so I would think I have virtually nothing to worry about.

2. are there any concerns while actually reloading? If yes, what can be done to mitigate them?

3. Is there a danger in over-crimping, or is this more of a "to prevent lead fouling" issue?

4. Does smokeless go bad? I have 2 1lb containers of TiteGroup, and 1lb of Unique that seem pretty old. They were given to me, and he has not reloaded in over 6 years.

Thanks guys!

 

[Peebles24]

Few answers...
Yes you can over crimp and may be why some of your loaded rounds do not fit the gauge. I dont use the roll crimp at all i use a lee factory crimp die. I back off the seating die so that it does not crimp, then next station has the factory crimp die. Over roll crimping can cause case bulge, and lead to feed issues.

Seems like a lot of deviation OAL. My 9mm loads on my lee turret generally have a .003 +/- deviation. I have been told this has to do with the consistency of your bullet seating stroke. How fast and hard you actuate the lever.

Going below minimum powder charge is basically as dangerous as going over the maximum. Throw away the lee auto disk, buy a better powder thrower. Some say you can make the auto disk work with some modifications, but i prefer about anything else.

Yes my loaded 9mm look hour glass shaped.

I have never had a primer pop during loading. Yes it can be dangerous ecspecially if there is any way for it to chain fire multiple primers. Never force a primer. Some factory primer pockets are crimped those will need to be swagged or trued with a primer pocket reamer.

As far as the gun going kaboom or squiding. Dont over or under charge any powder stay within the recommended safe load data.

Bad powder will have a distinct smell. It can go bad but proper storage in a cool dry place in the original container it should last decades. Dont leave powder in your powder thrower between loading sessions, put it back in yhe original container.

Be safe and have fun. Reloading is a fun hobby. Just follow published load data to the tee and you will be fine.

Chad

 

[siconic]

I think this set is factory crimp dies...

 

[Falfan2017]

I think small pistol rounds are more likely to blow up on you than rifle. When you're only using 4 gr or so of powder you can easily put double that in a case and have a problem. Most rifle rounds can't hold much more than the recommended charge. Also seating depths affect pressure much more on a pistol because .01 difference is a lot more percentage wise on a small pistol case than on a much taller rifle case.

Also be careful with titegroup. It's responsible for more kabooms than anything else I've heard of.

If I were you I would do everything on the rock chucker until you get comfortable. Weigh each powder charge and measure each seating depth. try to get things as consistent as possible. One thing to keep in mind is that your bullets won't be all the same size. Your oal may vary slightly even if all the bullets are seated the same because some are taller than others. I usually load pistol loads just above the low powder charge data. Less wear and tear on the gun as long as it's enough to cycle properly. You don't need the extra 50 fps just to shoot paper at 7 yards.

 

[retired]

one of the smartest things to for a new person is to buy and read TWO RELOADING MANUALS.

the second thing everyone should look at in pistol reloading is how much is a finger or an eye worth ?

buy/select a powder that fills the case more than 50% full. if you do this, you cannot double charge.

cost is minimal, safety maximum.

 

[tn6br]

Give hs-6 a try meters well and has more fill

 

[Rsadams]

A Lee factory crimp die is a separate die... If you have one you will have a 4 die set... It can be purchased separate for like $17...
I just remove the belling from the case , but I use Berry's bullets for practice , and to much crimp is not good... What I did in the beginning was take a sized case , then crimp a bullet at a quarter turn , then pull it.. then resize the case seat a bullet at half a turn and pull it all the way to a full turn... Then you can see how much it's deforming the bullet.. I use about a quarter turn on a LFCD...

 

[T-shooter]

The crimp is mainly to straighten the top if the case after it was flared to seat the bullet. The sides should be flat, not crimped in, after running it through the crimp die. The case body will expand a bit when the bullet is fully seated.

 

[txtaxman]

4. Out of the 50 rounds I have made (I should have only made 10 for testing), 3 did not fit the case gauge, and made it almost all the way, but were a bit high. Can they still be fired?

As pictured, your reloads look OK. Remove your barrel and try dropping one of the suspect rounds into the chamber. If it drops in, it will most likely chamber and fire.
I suspect that your sizing die needs to be turned down a bit more, perhaps 1/8 of a turn. Use your case gauge to set the sizing die so that all resized cases fit the gauge to ensure the rounds will chamber in any 9mm firearm.
I had been reloading for a 9mm HiPower for years, but then I bought a Glock and discovered that some of the rounds that would chamber in the HiPower would not chamber in the Glock. My solution was to obtain a case gauge and set my sizer die as outlined above.

 

[Rsadams]

The crimp is mainly to straighten the top if the case after it was flared to seat the bullet. The sides should be flat, not crimped in, after running it through the crimp die. The case body will expand a bit when the bullet is fully seated.
View attachment 1053449

Very nice , that's exactly what I was trying to explain... I have never used lead bullets in 9mm so I guess it would be the same.. I use Berry's bullets and you load them like a lead bullet , and that's exactly how I have done thousands of them with zero problems...

 

[Flouncer]

Since buying and reading at least two reloading manuals is advocated, here is what Lee says about their pistol crimp die.

" "Tests demonstrate that even bullets with no cannelure will shoot more accurately if crimped in place with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. A firm crimp improves accuracy because pressure must build to a higher level before the bullet begins to move. This higher start pressure insures a more uniform pressure curve and less velocity variation. Even powder selection is less critical."

No mention of correcting a belled mouth, BUT THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE

Here's more: It's all about even pressure on ignition:

"Lee 45 ACP, 45 AUTO RIM, 45 WIN MAG and 45 GAP Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the cartridge while being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. This die applies a taper crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. Trim Length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition, as it eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders."

Add gratuitous Lee slam post next.

 

[T-shooter]

Very nice , that's exactly what I was trying to explain... I have never used lead bullets in 9mm so I guess it would be the same.. I use Berry's bullets and you load them like a lead bullet , and that's exactly how I have done thousands of them with zero problems...

For pistols I usually use Rainier or Berry's bullets. I've used Xtreme but don't like them as well.

 

[T-shooter]

Since buying and reading at least two reloading manuals is advocated, here is what Lee says about their pistol crimp die.

" "Tests demonstrate that even bullets with no cannelure will shoot more accurately if crimped in place with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. A firm crimp improves accuracy because pressure must build to a higher level before the bullet begins to move. This higher start pressure insures a more uniform pressure curve and less velocity variation. Even powder selection is less critical."

No mention of correcting a belled mouth, BUT THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE

Here's more: It's all about even pressure on ignition:

"Lee 45 ACP, 45 AUTO RIM, 45 WIN MAG and 45 GAP Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the cartridge while being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. This die applies a taper crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. Trim Length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition, as it eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders."

Add gratuitous Lee slam post next.

I've read that too. I may have to experiment with the crimps, especially on some reloads that don't shoot well. I loaded a couple different loads for a .40 S&W. One groups reasonably and the other patterns. Here are a couple reloads I made for my 5" barrel Taurus PT100. I used Xtreme bullets for them. Neither load groups as well as the two factory ammos. The 165g Xtreme are hollow points and looks like a hex hole for an Allen wrench in the end. The grouping was at least 3X as large and I was resting my wrist for accuracy.The Cor-Bon loads are the most accurate.
CCI Blazer .40 factory loads, / 966 fps average

My .40 reloads, 180g with 5.2g of Bullseye powder / fps 1,000 average

CorBon, 165g HP factory loads / 1,190 fps average

My .40 reloads, 165g with 5.8g of Bullseye powder / 1,115 fps average (picture below)

 

[pirate ammo]

Very nice , that's exactly what I was trying to explain... I have never used lead bullets in 9mm so I guess it would be the same.. I use Berry's bullets and you load them like a lead bullet , and that's exactly how I have done thousands of them with zero problems...

we use the same bullet,maybe,,my load for the 9mm with CFE Pistol,thats all I use,,5.3 gr.,,col 1.150,,VERY LITTLE CRIMP,almost none,,Berrys 124 gr. hollow base round nose.
haven't had any complaints yet.Use a Lee Loadmaster,but I still weigh every charge,takes longer,but I feel better about it.hand prime all of them,1000 rds. don't take long.
hollow points,same powder,Hornady 124 gr.XTP,,4.5 gr.CFE pistol,,col 1.069,,all works for me ,,different people different loads,,thats whats makes it great,,

 

[retired]

except it is NOT true in the case of cast or plated bullets .
jacketed bullet are one dia, a cast bullet for the same gun is typically 1-2 thou larger.
the flaw of the LFCD is that it FULL length sizes the case AND the bullet.
fine for a jacketed bullet, but IT REDUCES THE dia of cast or plated bullets.
this is not good for accuracy.
function is fine, accuracy will most likely suck.

Since buying and reading at least two reloading manuals is advocated, here is what Lee says about their pistol crimp die.

" "Tests demonstrate that even bullets with no cannelure will shoot more accurately if crimped in place with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. A firm crimp improves accuracy because pressure must build to a higher level before the bullet begins to move. This higher start pressure insures a more uniform pressure curve and less velocity variation. Even powder selection is less critical."

No mention of correcting a belled mouth, BUT THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE

Here's more: It's all about even pressure on ignition:

"Lee 45 ACP, 45 AUTO RIM, 45 WIN MAG and 45 GAP Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the cartridge while being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. This die applies a taper crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. Trim Length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition, as it eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders."

Add gratuitous Lee slam post next.

 

[SSL]

except it is NOT true in the case of cast or plated bullets .
jacketed bullet are one dia, a cast bullet for the same gun is typically 1-2 thou larger.
the flaw of the LFCD is that it FULL length sizes the case AND the bullet.
fine for a jacketed bullet, but IT REDUCES THE dia of cast or plated bullets.
this is not good for accuracy.
function is fine, accuracy will most likely suck.

True. I only shoot cast bullets in .45 Colt, .45 ACP, .44 Magnum and .38 Special. My seating die ONLY seats the bullet followed by an appropriate seating die with the seating stem backed way out and set to crimp in the final station (Lee Loadmaster). I found early on that no matter how good the Lee FCD is, it is best used for jacketed bullets.

 

[siconic]

Thanks for all the good info guys! I guess I am just fearful of a kaboom. I suspect it actually takes bad brass, or a double charge. I think loading on the low side, checking every case for the proper charge, and using the right diameter bullet should make that unlikely.

 

[retired]

not really.
low charges leave room for a double charge.
i am not saying to load hot, but
find loads that fill the case more than 50%.

Thanks for all the good info guys! I guess I am just fearful of a kaboom. I suspect it actually takes bad brass, or a double charge. I think loading on the low side, checking every case for the proper charge, and using the right diameter bullet should make that unlikely.

 

[mikld]

I tried a Lee FCD on some 44 Magnums I reloaded. The FCD sized down my perfectly sized cast bullets resulting in barrel leading (I didn't run them over my chrony to see if any variations were appearent). I knocked out the sizing ring and the resulting crimp was way inferior to any roll crimp and especially my Redding Profile Crimp Die. The FCD now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon. I do not recommend new reloaders use an FCD, if there is a chambering problem, find out why and fix it.

I do not "crimp" any semi-auto ammo I load. I just "deflare", straighten out any flare in the case mouth and I use the plunk test so no measuring is needed. I just set the die to remove enough flare to consistently allow a good "plunk!". If a new reloader is concerned with "crimping enough", start with barely touching the case mouth with a taper crimp die, make sure the round will drop easily into the gun's chamber and fall out from it's own weight...

FWIW, it's easy to make sure you don't double charge a round; just look inside the case before you seat a bullet. Develop good safe habits now, when you start, and one is looking in each case for double/no charges (if you don't know what a double charge looks like, charge a case twice and set it aside so if necessary you can compare it to charged cases. Make sure the case is emptied of the double charge and not loaded with the others!!). I started reloading in '69 and had a squib in '70. Since that time I have looked in every case I've charged with powder and have had no other squibs and zero Kabooms!...

 

[86alaskan]

I use the LEE 4 die set exclusively for all my pistol loads. they seem to work the best as each die has a specific purpose, instead of trying to accomplish 2 things with the same die. When I start with a pistol load, I shoot for the middle of the range leaning more toward the top, than toward the bottom. I'd rather have one a touch hot than a squib or detonation.

Also, I'd take the OAL measurement with a grain of salt unless you're measuring away from the tip. I can clearly see, in one of your pictures, that there is a casting flaw on the tip of the bullet right where a caliper jaw would land. That alone will throw your measurements off enough to cause an anxious person to worry.

If you want safe powder with good metering, I'd try W231. I use it in almost everything. Shoots good, meters very evenly, pretty clean burning, lots and lots of load data for it.