Fireforming with Cream of Wheat?

[MarTay6]

I'm new to reloading- and starting with a 6.5 Creedmoor rifle build. I've been reading through a batch of back issues of 'Handloader' magazine I got off eBay, and found an issue discussing the 6.5 C/M round. It spoke of forming brass using the Cream of Wheat method of fireforming C/M brass from 22-250 brass using a pistol powder charge, topping the case off with COW to the neck, then stuffing a .22 patch in the neck to retain the contents. Fire it in a C/M chamber- and it expands the case out to a 6.5 C/M case. Just like magic!
I originally intended to post a few questions regarding fireforming cases, being new to handloading- this certainly seems like a viable option to come up with C/M brass as opposed to purchasing Hornady brass, which seems to have had some quality/softness issues.
Years ago, I vaguely remember hearing of fireforming brass using COW, just wanted to get some opinions/confirmations as to the validity of the method. There certainly is a large variety of 22-250 brass out there, and that would give me a lot of choices. Speaking of choices, if this is a viable method- any brand recommendations for brass? Thanks for any advice!
Wes

 

[Jdne5b]

I used Lapua 22-250 brass and formed with COW. I actually necked up first, then fireformed it with about 14 gr of Win 231, but I don't have for exact notes. I started around 10gr and worked up to 16 or so in 2gr increments. I didnt notice any difference in case forming between the top two charges, so went with the lesser.

I read the same thing about the Hornady brass and have yet to lose any after 5-6 firings, but I don't run hot loads either.

 

[JDMock]

After a friend blew up his XP-100, I recommend that one uses Cream of Wheat for breakfast and pistol powders in pistols. Find some cheap bullets and use a firle powder of correct burning rate. Good shooting....James

 

[Quest-QC]

i'm personnaly forming with COW, 15gr of Unique. case is topped with a VFG patch for .30 cal. I mount my barrel action so the barrel end up in a big truck muffler stapped on a table in the basement. The muffler is absorbing the blast and make it safe.....and quiet ))

 

[bigedp51]

MarTay6

When using COW method remember this, the firing pin is going to drive the case forward creating head clearance or air space between the rear of the case and the bolt face when the case is fired. Meaning the case is "NOT" going to be form fitting to the chamber and be a sloppy fit. This means a second firing using a bullet at higher pressure to get a true fireformed case.

I would rather use higher pressure methods and make sure the base of the case is resting against the bolt face when fired. The chamber pressure needs to be high enough so the case doesn't headspace on the primer. Seating the bullets long and jamming the bullet into the rifling will hold the case in position.

Just above the " Bullet Free" method at the link below, there is a way to ensure the case will rest against the bolt face. I do not agree with full power loads and lubing the case but at upper mid-range loading this method should not create excessive bolt thrust.

WARNING: Do not lube cases with older firearms and older milsurp rifles, the steel used in many of these older firearms is not up to modern standards and the bolt thrust can and will increase the headspace on these firearms.


Fireforming Brass

An Important Technique For A Handloader To Learn.

http://gunsmagazine.com/fireforming-brass/

Using the COW method there is not enough chamber pressure generated to keep the case from headspacing on the primer. This means your case will be short in cartridge headspace in relation to the chamber.

You will need higher chamber pressure to insure the cartridge case makes contact with the bolt face and fills out the shoulder and neck area of the case when fired.

Below the chamber pressure is high enough to cause the case to be forced back into the bolt face, and re-seat the primer.

On the British Enfield rifle I used a small thin rubber o-ring to hold the case against the bolt face. But this method only works with rimmed cases.

On the Enfield rifle and at maximum military headspace you could have .017 head clearance when the cartridge is fired. The result of this is excessive case stretching in the base web area.

 

[MarTay6]

bigedp51-
Thanks for the in-depth reply and all the info- and the link.
Phew, a lot to digest. First of all, it's kind of scary for me- an inexperienced beginner at reloading, to think of loading another caliber brass with a bullet and sticking it in a gun and firing it! I guess the 22-250 brass is a close enough fit to work. Obviously, it must be. How does one determine how much powder to use/what kind of bullet? Does one have to do any resizing work with a die first- I mean, it refers to removing the expander from the die.... can you briefly outline the whole procedure from beginning to end?? Hope that's not asking too much. Or are there any other good references on resizing brass by fireforming?
The COW method somehow seemed a bit safer to me, but not if it's not fully reforming the brass. I noted that he had to keep increasing the charge- until the brass was finally expanded fully...how does one determine when that happens?
Any further information in depth from anyone here is greatly appreciated!!
Thanks again~
Wes

 

[bigedp51]

Question.

Why not just use .260 Remington brass (.308 class cases) and start long and size down to 6.5 Creedmoor, and not worry about blowing out the shoulder?


OFB762LC13 Once-fired TEST brass. 7.62x51(308) $105.00 / 500

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001557&dir=278|282|909|980

 

[MarTay6]

Well, that certainly would be an option as well, I guess- and I'd really rather keep it as simple as possible. What would the steps be to do that?
Wes

 

[bigedp51]

If you Google the subject the Hornady made 6.5 Creedmoor brass is soft and you don't get very many firings before the primer pocket is too big.

If you form .308 class cases you will need to turn the necks. Using Lake City military cases you would have a higher quality/grade of brass and longer lasting cases.

If you use 22-250 cases you do not need to turn the necks. But these cases need special fireforing techniques.

If you chamber your rifle in .260 Remington you don't have to do anything special to the brass and you just eat Cream of Wheat for breakfast.
(or Wheaties – The Breakfast of Champions) KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid

 

[mr45man]

Pistol powder= hot and fast, that is what burns out a barrel.
I would just shoot bullets with rifle powder made for the task, get some trigger time, load development, forms the brass well ;D
John H.

 

[Erik Cortina]

... I'd really rather keep it as simple as possible. What would the steps be to do that?
Wes

Rechamber to .260 or 6.5x47 Lapua.

 

[1shot]

+1 to what mr45man said. I used the COW method on one of my 6.5x55 improved barrels monitoring the throat and bore with a bore scope. After forming 100 pieces of brass I just loaded the next 100 with 130 Norma's and went to a 600 yd. match, shooting well I might add. Odd thing about pistol powder, the chamber/throat never got hot, but the middle of the barrel did. That is why I limited my forming to 10 shot strings. Now, I have a fire-form barrel that I screw on and shoot groundhogs, crows, unknown distance steel targets, etc. I get to have some fun and get my brass formed all at the same time, without putting rounds down a brand new bbl. BTW, the FF barrel and my comp. barrels are all cut with the same reamer.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[MarTay6]

Lots of good info here, thanks much. Giving me thought to my choice of caliber. Hornady brass doesn't last as long as Lapua brass that costs twice as much for instance... Hmmmmm.... ultimately, wonder what is actually the cheaper? Brass IS available in either of the 3 calibers here under discussion, so maybe it's not so much an issue?? Still, having longer-lasting brass IS an issue... which is the reason behind the query of making my own C/M brass... again, I'm a novice at this, and trying to learn the various processes- so I can make better educated choices.
Wes

 

[Erik Cortina]

Brass life is not what matters, your ultimate goal is what matters the most.

Do you want to become as good a shooter as you can or do you want to become as good as possible at forming brass? If you want to become as good a shooter as possible, start off with Lapua brass that's ready to go with match winning consistency and spend your time tuning your loads and practicing reading the wind.

Buy enough Lapua brass to last the life of your barrel and you will only have to fireform once to your chamber, after that, you will have enough brass to load your most accurate load and have more time to practice and learn.

If you want to become good at forming brass and not shooting, keep doing what you're doing.

That's my $.02