Fire-forming 280 Ackley SAAMI/Nosler in original 280AI Chamber

[p-man]

Before I became aware of the differences in the 'old' and 'new' 280 AI, I bought several boxes of Nosler 280 Ackley brass. If I fireform - without bullet - in an original 280 AI chamber, will the resultant case be long enough? Will it 'flow' 13 thousandths, and if so will the case be too thin in any critical area? Just need to know if I can use it or need to sell it.

 

[germanlongbow]

Ran into same problem last year. My gunsmith has original 280 AI chamber and Nosler brass. Same reamer but brass set up is a bit different. He switched to remington brass and I bought his Nosler brass and he set the chamber accordingly. I cant remember the differences between the two but he does. His name is Mike Harrman (319 750 2907) His cell phone. He is almost always available from 7 am to about 11 pm everyday. He can answer all your questions. Good luck Scott

 

[TC260]

My experience has been that Nosler brass won't fireform properly to an original Ackley chamber without some help. Simply jamming the bullet isn't nearly enough (at least I couldn't get it to work anyway. Not with only one firing). I switched to Remington brass and it fireformed perfectly first time. With some case prep, accuracy is more than enough for my modest requirements. If I were going to try Nosler brass again, I'd take the extra steps to neck it up then down to create a false shoulder to get the shoulder in the right place on first firing.

 

[p-man]

Thanks, that is what I suspected - a couple of manufacturers went off on a tangent with 280 AI - Ackley (and later Fred Hunnington) thought out the "improved" methodology very well and Remington and Nosler completely ignored the handloading perspective with their actions - maybe Nosler did this strictly to force consumers to use their brass and ammo - personally, I think it was very arrogant of them sneak this to SAAMI without regard to existing proliferation 280AI users in the existing "handloading and custom firearms" community - in addition, a standardized round already existed with rifle manufacturers such as Jarret and they were completely ignored - what a disrespectful way to treat the rest of the professional community, if not the retail consumer - and now for all intents and purposes we have two different cartridges floating around with the same generic name. What a mess. Sitting here looking at box of "Nosler 280 Ackley Improved" 140 AB ammo and nowhere is there a warning about differing chambering. Hope their risk manager and liability legal team are having nightmares over this.

Can someone tell me what oversight responsibility does SAAMI bear in this? Do they research any new request to standardize a cartridge? If so they were asleep of the wheel with this one. Seems to me, that if I were an ammo manufacturer, I could take something say like the 7mm-08AI (which I don't think is a SAAMI standard round), put my own 'spin' on it enough to change it just enough that all the previously accepted 7mm-08AI rounds would still slide in the chamber with enough 'slop' for potentially dangerous headspace issues, etc. and yet present it to SAAMI for "standardization and VOILA! my new corrupt creation is now the legal, industry standard. My God, who watches over SAAMI?.

OK, my venting is over with . . . and yes, I was a risk mgr in another life

PS. I guess the moderator will slap my hand on this one.

 

[JeffG]

The whole beauty of Ackley's cartridges was their inherent designed-in safety of headspacing on the neck-to-shoulder corner, which allowed standard (280 rem in this case) cartridges to be chambered and safely fire-formed into a larger capacity "Ackley Improved" cartridge.

The new SAAMI Approved 280 changes this whole standard, by headspacing on the arbitrary mid-shoulder .375" diameter of a standard 280 rem case, then fireforming the shoulder and the neck to different lengths (standard 280 rem will still chamber safely in both Ackley Improved, and SAAMI Improved

Here's a good summary
( http://gunsmithtalk.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/280-ackley-improved-alert/ )

 

[JeffG]

According to this further testing the Nosler brass will work in a properly headspaced "traditional Ackley Improved" 280 chamber.
( http://gunsmithtalk.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/280-ackley-improved-emperical-headspace-test/ )

 

[p-man]

Jeff, the two (different) posts contradict. Not taking issue with you but with the links. Either they are identical or they are not - the second link states that there is NO difference, just a difference in how they measure the case dimensions. OR am I reading these incorrectly? Also, I would think by now if the two nominal cartridges were the same, then SAAMI and/or Nosler would have issued a public statement to that effect.

 

[TC260]

I was thinking the same thing p-man. I didn't have time to read through every single comment but they're dated over the course of a couple years and the discussion seemed to evolve in a weird way from, there's obviously a problem to, move along there's nothing to see here.

According to the one link my gun's just not built right (was made pre-SAAMI 280AI). So my gun may be broke but the straight 280 brass worked exactly as it should in an AI chamber and the Nosler brass seriously didn't. I'm not a genius but something isn't adding up here ???

 

[FUBAR]

There is a difference in Remington fire formed brass and Nosler factory brass in my rifle.

In my original 280AI the Nosler brass is too long by about .014 as measured with a bump gauge. I can chamber the Nosler brass, but I have to force the bolt.

I just bump the Nosler brass back....

 

[wapiti25]

I had an issue with nosler bullets, new mfg were .0005" under old mfg dia. I called nosler and they said "nothing wrong with our bullets". they are just arrogant.

 

[gotcha]

+1 for Wapiti, I've spoken w/ Nosler brass dept. on more than one occasion. The people skills & demeanor found there tell me these guys would be much better suited to Lighthouse tending as a profession. Just my .02