Filler or no filler? (Unique).

[Mistral]

Ladies and gents,

If you've see my profile, you'll know that I’m not new to reloading and have been doing so for quite a few years.

However that said, I'm not used to reloading reduced loads.

I currently stoke my 45-70’s with Reloader 7.

I know there’s (and have read) lots of stuff out there with regards to Reloading reduced loads in a 45.70, but my question is a slightly different one.

I'm looking to use Unique powder, under 250 grain H&N hollowpoint, HS bullet (Coated lead).

I'm hoping to send this project at between 1300 to 1600 ft./s. I've found plenty of load data, but my question is this.

As everybody knows in the older Lyman reloading books, It suggests that when using reduced loads, such as with Unique in a 45-70, that a filler should be used.

However, in more modern times a filler isn't suggested?

I know many shooters don't use fillers.

I plan to use the reloaded ammunition in my Ruger No.1 (which I realise is an extremely strong action).

I envisage the Unique charge to be around 15 grains, but can't help but feel uneasy about the big emptiness and lack of filler within the cartridge.

I guess what I'm asking for is reassurance that I'm not going to blow the hell out of my rifle with my intended load.

Your thoughts and comments (experienced) not just what you've read on the net, would be very much appreciated.

Thanks guys.

Lee.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

It is generally recommended that if a filler is not in the load data, then don't use one. I have no experience with light bullets in 45-70 as I usually load mine to take advantage of the power available.

Your load ought to make a good close range deer or practice load though.

A quote from Riflewoman in Dec. 2018:

"The best is none.

Kapok used to be used extensively. Light and extremely flammable, it was probably consumed in the chamber.

Cotton and Dacron have also be used but these are generally not as good.

The reason the best is NONE is that fillers can “ring” a barrel. It is a known phenomenon although the precise mechanism is unknown. To me if the load density is less than 60%, I need a different rifle."

I have read numerous other examples of the chamber ringing over the years.

 

[jds holler]

I've never loaded 45-70, but have used many reduced or listed loads with Unique and other flake powders, and never used fillers.

The "detonation" situation that you hear about is mysterious and troubling, but seems to be unrepeatable in the lab.

I'd love to hear more on this subject myself. jd

 

[Darwin]

Use IMR Trail Boss. It is the safest powder for reducing recoil.

 

[Texas10]

Some light reading on Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE) and light charges.

https://castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/secondary-explosion-effect-see/
http://africanxmag.com/secondary_explosion_effect.htm
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../printthread/Board/34/main/175869/type/thread

 

[Canadian bushman]

I agree trail boss is probably the best option.

However i have loaded 8 gns of unique in a 308 case for subsonic 168’s

I shot this load many of times and never had any issue.

I believe if you run the numbers youll find that 15gns in a 45-70 is a higher fill ratio than 8gns in a 308 win.

I personally would try lubed cast bullets with a slightly higher load and work my way down.

I personally always point the rifle up, then slowly lower it down to the target when testing a reduced load. If it passes that test, i point it straight down. If it passes this test i then reduce the load.

 

[243winxb]

No filler. Tried kapok years ago . No help in 3006 3030 using cast bullets & shotgun powder . Red dot , Unique others i forget.

 

[mac86951]

Interesting find here. Also agreement that filler can cause more problems than fix them; however, you're an experienced reloader and know that well by now.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

 

[Twicepop]

Unique isn't position sensitive, it doesn't have to be laying up against the primer for proper ignition. Fillers as a rule reduce internal capacity, raising pressures because of the charge being used in what is now a smaller space.