Hey folks, I'm shooting a Win 70 Featherweight 243wssm as my hunting rifle and the idea came across about building a LR Rig in the same caliber. I was thinking a Rem 700 action with a 1/8" twist. Throated for the 115's. Why don't I see more of these rifles being used? Am I missing something?
Fast Twist 243wssm?
- Thread starter TyWard 6BR
- Start date
It all boils down to brass quality. The wssm brass is thick and not conducive to long brass life. It was a great concept but I feel they dropped the ball with their brass quality.
I never thought of the brass. I have all 3 calibers by both Winchester and Browning. My Browning A-Bolt in 223wssm has the heavy stainless barrel and is probably the most accurate factory rifle I own. However I agreewith the short barrel life. I just tthought with the power behing it that it would be the perfect cartridge for the 115Dtac's
You will never get reasonable barrel life with the WSSM capacity in 24cal. It's a simple matter of capacity to cal regardless of cartridge.
Winchester should have made only a 25 & 26 WSSM.
They also should have made WSSM cases separate, instead of using WSM cases. This why WSSM brass is so thick. It's not thick in WSM length but too thick in WSSM length.
I disagree about WSSM quality though. Win reloading brass in WSSM is excellent. Just as consistent as Lapua.
There are common mistakes people make with WSSM builds, wildcat or otherwise.
- They don't turn necks, and should have expected bad results from necks 20thou thick
- They don't use magnum diameter barrel tenons to get enough barrel steel around this magnum diameter case
- They don't incorporate WSM attributes into action design to get proper feeding, extraction and ejection
-Their chamber clearances are too high
Bottom line, folks making these mistakes in WSSM didn't know what they were doing. Chances are they didn't learn anything either..
Oh, and the notion: 'The wssm brass is thick and not conducive to long brass life' is completely wrong. WSSM brass thickness is the same as WSM brass thickness, which in no way reduces brass life. If anything, WSSM brass life, in the hands of someone who has a plan, is as likely to be infinite.
Winchester should have made only a 25 & 26 WSSM.
They also should have made WSSM cases separate, instead of using WSM cases. This why WSSM brass is so thick. It's not thick in WSM length but too thick in WSSM length.
I disagree about WSSM quality though. Win reloading brass in WSSM is excellent. Just as consistent as Lapua.
There are common mistakes people make with WSSM builds, wildcat or otherwise.
- They don't turn necks, and should have expected bad results from necks 20thou thick
- They don't use magnum diameter barrel tenons to get enough barrel steel around this magnum diameter case
- They don't incorporate WSM attributes into action design to get proper feeding, extraction and ejection
-Their chamber clearances are too high
Bottom line, folks making these mistakes in WSSM didn't know what they were doing. Chances are they didn't learn anything either..
Oh, and the notion: 'The wssm brass is thick and not conducive to long brass life' is completely wrong. WSSM brass thickness is the same as WSM brass thickness, which in no way reduces brass life. If anything, WSSM brass life, in the hands of someone who has a plan, is as likely to be infinite.
Back in 05 a friend built a 223 WSSM in a short tactical rifle, I think it was 22". It ran 90 SMK's at 3050 fps and flattened speed goats at pretty good distance. It was very accurate, and prepped brass worked well.
Another friend shoots a 25 and his brass was very hard from the factory.
Another friend shoots a 25 and his brass was very hard from the factory.
I have disagree about brass quality of the Winchester WSSM brass. I have lots that the shellholder falls on some and you can't push some in it. The measurements taken with caliper in the extractor groove proved they really varied. I built one in a 243 WSSM for 1000 yards and will never build another one. Compared to how easy to make a WSM shoot and how good the Norma brass is there is no comparison. The weight differences between high and low in a Norma 300 WSM to a Win 243WSSM is big. The WSM case which is bigger and weighs more has less variation in weight. This was with a couple of different lots so it wasn't one random batch. Matt
My counter is based on complete success with mine, a 26wssm Imp wildcat.
Out of one lot of 1,000(from 3,000 on-hand) 25wssm I pulled nearly 200 that were perfectly consistent and matched in neck thickness. With exception of one lucky lot in 6br, this is actually as good, and better on occasion, than I've seen from Lapua. Good enough to fill out a reamer print for a fitted chamber.
After prepping and fire forming, I measured & found ~half of these matched in H20 capacity to theoretically provide 2fps variance. I think I kept 80, and sold off most of the rest. This was when WSSM first come out, quite a while ago. I couldn't even find so much brass today.
I run 47.4gr IMR4350 for an accuracy node at 3025fps w/139Laps from 28" Border barrels. I used a one-off single shot BAT RS, with CRPF and standing blade ejection. This is right at SAAMI max(64Kpsi) for 25wssm, and with over 30 reloads on these cases I have never needed, and never will need to FL size. I shoulder bump only, which is still required because I only went 35deg shoulders. No neck or body sizing.
'MyMax load' testing showed that I would not need to size near webs until just under 3200fps(w/N550 ~75.5Kpsi) and this has held true. Not bad.
Hell, these cases could last forever.
I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with Lapua or Norma brass. I love the stuff and use plenty of both myself. But if you were not satisfied with Win WSSM reloading brass, and that's what you're blaming, I just have to assume you had a bad plan all along. And if you somehow managed to ruin some of it,, that took some effort..
Out of one lot of 1,000(from 3,000 on-hand) 25wssm I pulled nearly 200 that were perfectly consistent and matched in neck thickness. With exception of one lucky lot in 6br, this is actually as good, and better on occasion, than I've seen from Lapua. Good enough to fill out a reamer print for a fitted chamber.
After prepping and fire forming, I measured & found ~half of these matched in H20 capacity to theoretically provide 2fps variance. I think I kept 80, and sold off most of the rest. This was when WSSM first come out, quite a while ago. I couldn't even find so much brass today.
I run 47.4gr IMR4350 for an accuracy node at 3025fps w/139Laps from 28" Border barrels. I used a one-off single shot BAT RS, with CRPF and standing blade ejection. This is right at SAAMI max(64Kpsi) for 25wssm, and with over 30 reloads on these cases I have never needed, and never will need to FL size. I shoulder bump only, which is still required because I only went 35deg shoulders. No neck or body sizing.
'MyMax load' testing showed that I would not need to size near webs until just under 3200fps(w/N550 ~75.5Kpsi) and this has held true. Not bad.
Hell, these cases could last forever.
I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with Lapua or Norma brass. I love the stuff and use plenty of both myself. But if you were not satisfied with Win WSSM reloading brass, and that's what you're blaming, I just have to assume you had a bad plan all along. And if you somehow managed to ruin some of it,, that took some effort..
TZaun
Gold $$ Contributor
Ty, Mike's correct that the brass isn't as bad as perceived. Is it Lapua quality right out of the box? No. Matt's correct that occasionaly you do run into a piece of new brass that won't fit in the shellholder. Just pitch it and move on. It doesn't happen very often. If you can find the Federal brass, jump all over it. That stuff is REALLY good. I bought some a couple of years ago. I used 243 WSSM brass to neck up for the 6.5 WSSM hunting rifle I have. You need to turn the necks way down, that's for sure. I have a little over a dozen (13 or 14) firings on my brass with no signs of it going bad and I don't anneal. I rebarreled a Winchester 70 with a Bartlien and throated it for 140 Berger Hunting VLDs. I worked up a load using Erik Cortina's method. I have ES on either side of 10 at 2860 fps and it shoots better than I can. I know those numbers don't mean anything to you for your 243 but the point is that you can get that thing to shoot really good. I think you've been fairly warned about barrel life though. Sometimes it's fun to try something off the beaten path.
mshelton
Kinda off the topic but in copy of Varmint Hunter that came out a while back a guy took WSSM cases and made a little 30cal round out of it, he turned the necks and looked like he did it right, called it the 30BR Mag. Looked like a pretty cool little cartridge.
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