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Failure to fire

Herzo

Silver $$ Contributor
I pulled a Remington 600 that I had rebarreled to .223 out of the safe last week. It is a .223 & not a 5.56 and had set in the safe probably cocked for several years. Wanting to check the zero on the scope, I attempted to fire some some American Eagle AR .223 (Federal) through it.
First round did not fire. After waiting an appropriate length of time, I ejected the round and saw a satisfyingly deep firing pin strike. The next round fired as it should. Next FTF. In all I had 3 FTF out of a dozen rounds. I then ran the 3 FTF rounds through an AR and 2 of the 3 fired. I looked on the box and found "Mil spec primer, for best performance use in AR style firearms".
I'll have to try some reloads with commercial primers.
 
Years ago I sprayed a bolt down after drenching the rifle in a rain storm. When I got home I wiped it down but didn't blow out the bolt to get excess wd-40 out of it. It welded everything together and had to be disassembled and cleaned because it wouldn't fire. The wd-40 got into the bolt face and puddled so much it set up like glue. Another lesson learned
 
I had a similar experience with a 223AI. I tried a number of different flavors of factory ammo. I brought the rifle back to gunsmith to check the chamber for fear that the chamber was to long. The chamber measured exactly to spec. The culprit was the factory ammo, which was not spec. The case shoulders were set back by as little as 0.004" to a much a .0150", which prevented a proper crush fit. The light strikes on the ammo resulted from firing pin making initial contact, and then the force would push the cartridge forward into the chamber without enough resistance for the primer to be struck with enough force to ignite. We measured a bunch of ammo... it is all below spec to ensure no risk of jamming, especially when used in an AR15.

Try some of the factory match ammo, which will measure closest to spec...or reload your own ammo. Good Luck
 
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What are you asking?
Or suggesting?
Box tells you specifically for use in AR.
"Satisfyingly deep firing pin strike" equals ammo/primer issue, not firearm.
 
How did the rifle perform shortly after re-barreling? Did you have FTF issues?

Put three or four layers of scotch tape on the cartridge head that FTF and chamber. If the bolt closes, you likely have a headspace issue with that particular ammo.
 
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I pulled a Remington 600 that I had rebarreled to .223 out of the safe last week. It is a .223 & not a 5.56 and had set in the safe probably cocked for several years. Wanting to check the zero on the scope, I attempted to fire some some American Eagle AR .223 (Federal) through it.
First round did not fire. After waiting an appropriate length of time, I ejected the round and saw a satisfyingly deep firing pin strike. The next round fired as it should. Next FTF. In all I had 3 FTF out of a dozen rounds. I then ran the 3 FTF rounds through an AR and 2 of the 3 fired. I looked on the box and found "Mil spec primer, for best performance use in AR style firearms".
I'll have to try some reloads with commercial primers.


The main issue here is "Mil-spec primer". The cocked hammer of an AR15 has more energy than a cocked firing pin in a bolt action. The cup material of the milspec primer is harder and the anvil requires more compression. Now, the fact that you may have stored the firing pin cocked in the Rem 600 in the safe for several years could have resulted in a spring "set". If you have additional issues with commercial ammo of reloads using non milspec components, then consider having the firing pin spring changed. But this is most likely ammo related. Just a thought.
 
How did the rifle perform shortly after re-barreling? Did you have FTF issues?

Put three or four layers of scotch tape on the cartridge head that FTF and chamber. If the bolt closes, you likely have a headspace issue with that particular ammo.
Never had an issue previously. I did check the one round that did not fire in either rifle using a cartridge gage, it was a couple of thousands shorter than spec. I suspect that there was movement of the cartridge at the initial strike, cushioning the impact on the primer. I suspect that the mil primer contributed to the problem. Disassembled the bolt, it seemed gtg, but cleaned it anyway. I'll see how my hand loads with commercial primers work.
 
The milspec primer definitely contributed to the problem.

I bet you if you use Federal 205/205m or Winchester primers you'll never have a FTF even if your firing pin spring is tired.
 
I meant to mention in my earlier post - replace your firing pin spring. Spend $15 on a Wolf replacement firing pin spring, which are a little longer and more robust than the standard Remington factory spring. Its an inexpensive upgrade that will help rifle power through the toughest primer. It won't solve a head space issue resulting from either a long chamber or a short case, but if it is right on the edge it may help.
 
I'll machine a gage to check the length of my fired cases and if neccessary grab a set of Redding shell holders so that I can set the resized cases to the chamber.
 
Never had an issue previously. I did check the one round that did not fire in either rifle using a cartridge gage, it was a couple of thousands shorter than spec. I suspect that there was movement of the cartridge at the initial strike, cushioning the impact on the primer. I suspect that the mil primer contributed to the problem. Disassembled the bolt, it seemed gtg, but cleaned it anyway. I'll see how my hand loads with commercial primers work.

The major difference between the CCI 41 mil spec primer and non mil spec is in the design of the anvil, which makes the primer less sensitive to firing pin impact. This is because some gas operated rifles have a floating firing pin that can hit the primer hard during normal bolt cycling, and before the trigger is pulled. This can cause what is known as a slam-fire.

If your chosen ammo is a bit on the short side, and your chamber a bit long, these can "tolerance stack" to rob the firing pin strike of enough energy and cause FTF.

Same thing happens when a primer is not seated all the way.

A new to handloading guy at the range I frequent complained that he had a "bad batch of primers" as 24 of 30 rounds he loaded failed to fire. I asked how he set his headspace when sizing his brass, and he had no idea what I was talking about. Didn't own the tools to measure H.S.

Needless to say, we had a conversation about sizing brass and primer pocket preparation.

Not saying you're that guy, just giving an example for the lurkers out there who may want to know more.
 
Texas10,
No problem, there are always nuance things to learn. If I knew it all, I wouldn't be here. :D
I've been reloading for 50 years and never run into this combination.
 
saw a satisfyingly deep firing pin strike.

Its more the velocity of the pin.

My old 600 Rem Mohawk in 243 win still works fine. Never took the bolt apart. Been treated with WD 40 (yes i know, not for guns) for years.

Will be interesting to see if its hard primers.

In a Savage Axis 223, the firing pin strike set the shoulder back .006" when a CCI 400 primer didnt fire. I think the extractor type has something to do with it. Lets round move forward.
I dont think a Remington extractor would allow it?
 
I pulled a Remington 600 that I had rebarreled to .223 out of the safe last week. It is a .223 & not a 5.56 and had set in the safe probably cocked for several years. Wanting to check the zero on the scope, I attempted to fire some some American Eagle AR .223 (Federal) through it.
First round did not fire. After waiting an appropriate length of time, I ejected the round and saw a satisfyingly deep firing pin strike. The next round fired as it should. Next FTF. In all I had 3 FTF out of a dozen rounds. I then ran the 3 FTF rounds through an AR and 2 of the 3 fired. I looked on the box and found "Mil spec primer, for best performance use in AR style firearms".
I'll have to try some reloads with commercial primers.



Before you start reassessing sizing, shoulder setback, primer pockets etc... grab a box of very good commercial match ammo. May I suggest Federal GM match 223. Since you had the Rem re-barreled, then I would safely bet it was chambered with a SAAMI spec reamer. The Fed. ammo should work in "anything". I'm not suggesting that you not evaluate your reloading prowess, this is how we all learn different techniques, just start with the least time consuming step and work up from there. Hope it all works out well.
 
Made up a gage this morning as measured to the headspace datum on the cartridge that failed to fire. Found it to be 0.010 inch shorter than several of the remaining unfired cartridges.

Then checked 5 of the cartridges that I fired through the 600. They were very consistent at 0.004 inches longer than than the average of the unfired cartridges.
I believe that the combination of mil primers and a short case was the problem.

I appreciate the suggestions from Texas10 & Coldboreshot you saved me some headaches.
BTW the barrel is a Shaw and was ordered with a match chamber.
 

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