F Class TR - Best bipod position

[Marksman63]

Fellows,
Is there a practical rule (front/rear weight balancing, barycentre position, etc.) for bipod position in order to get the best rifle's tracking?

 

[Scott Harris]

Your own experiments will always provide the best info. That said, I think there is a benefit to getting the bipod as far out as practical. It reduces or eliminates the hop that can occur under recoil. PR&T makes stocks with extra long forearms that enable doing this. The disadvantage is I have to break my position to adjust the bipod since it is now further away than I can reach.

 

[Lapua40X]

While I disagree with Scott that moving the bipod further out reduces recoil hop, I certainly agree that I get better results in overall stability as I move the bipod further forward. There is however, as Scott pointed out, a limit as to how far out is too far. My bipod is far enough out to obtain the best stability and still allow me to reach it for making adjustments that might prove necessary. That's especially important when moving from one shooting position to another where the ground is uneven or there is an elevation change.

 

[Marksman63]

OK. My Shehane ST1000 stock has a very long forend and no problem for minor adjustments when on shooting position as I mount a Joypad.

Issue is balance between stability (far out position) and recoil hop/tracking. IMHO it should depend on how front and rear rifle's weights are distributed through bipod and rear bag and position of rifle's centre of gravity

 

[mysticplayer]

My new FTR rig... I am fully into the long forend camp. The difference and improvement in both tracking and hop has to be used to believe. That is a 30" barrel for reference.

Balance as pictured is just in front of the receiver as it should be.

As an evolution of this, I designed the MPOD to be basic, simple and very light. Call it rear steer if you will... fine elevation adjustment is done by sliding the stock for and aft in the bag... the bottom of the buttstock has a taper. I saved a ton of weight and complexity... do not need to break position to adjust and it works very well.

Best part, I don't need to fiddle and fight with the bipod through a relay. Just push back into center and send another shot. It doesn't change its setting.

https://youtu.be/nkNydfWuGSc

you can see how the rifle shoots in the video. I shoot bullets from 210 to 230gr.

Jerry

 

[Marksman63]

Here is my current set up

 

[mysticplayer]

Whether moving the bipod forward reduces hop I think may be largely dependent on the individual shooter and their gun handling technique. However, it will definitely reduce the vertical/horizontal movement in the muzzle caused by set amount of movement at the rear. Bipod position can be viewed as a fulcrum for a lever, meaning the farther forward it is, the more movement it will take at the rear to cause a certain displacement in the muzzle. This might be an advantage as long as the bipod wasn't placed so far forward it caused the shooter to be uncomfortable behind the gun. Determining empirically what works best for you with your setup is usually the best approach, and what you find may well be different than what someone else favors.

Same concept at top fuel Dragsters and their very long nose. It is all about controlling "weight" transfer or in our case, movement due to recoil. Just having a stock with a long forend doesn't necessarily mean you will solve all ills. Alot went into the set up of my stock and a number of dimensions are not conventional. As is the style and geometry of my bipod.

The physics doesn't lie on the affect of putting a bipod further away from the receiver. It is the HOW that changes the story and some set ups may show negative results.

When shooting 230's, I can usually see my impacts and displacement on paper target usually still puts my reticle in the Black .. sometimes 9 ring or 10 ring if I am really in good form

I hear quite often that anything heavier then a 215 can be near impossible to drive due to bounce and hop. That is where a different approach to stock set up and bipod will yield positive results.

Watch the video.. My rifle doesn't move much during recoil.

YMMV.

Jerry

 

[Joe R]

I don't mean to hijack the tread, an if anyone finds it objectionable I will start a new thread.

Has anyone succeeded in finding a way to avoid the rifle (.308) hopping after firing? I must be doing something wrong because it hops on me every time.

Joe

 

[mysticplayer]

That is what all this is about... trying to reduce rifle movement under recoil by making adjustments to the rifle.

Lighter bullet is the easiest way to resolve but that has its own problems.

Stock layout vs shooter position

Bipod design vs position on stock vs recoil energy.

They all interplay and can have positive or less then positive results.

Click on the link to my video and you can see where I am wrt to hopping and rifle movement under recoil. The bullet being launched is a 210 going over 2600fps... that is plenty of recoil for any FTR set up.

I also shoot 230's with similar results. The stock layout is different then anything on the line in FTR... it is awfully comfy for me to shoot.

Jerry

 

[eric32]

Jerry

What style of hold do you use with the bipod being so far out like that. Is it a little cheek pressure/little shoulder?

One of the older bulletin talked about the carbon fiber stock and almost a free recoil approach with a sled type bipod. I believe it was written about Mr Pierce and the m8chigan FTR team

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Scott...George...I see a need for each of you all to adopt Marksman63's approach, by incorporating a SEB Joy-pod with the PR&T stock. ??? Even if it does not solve your particular problems; at least, it will help you in a transition over to F-Open!!! ;D 8)

See you in a couple of weeks!

Dan

 

[Scott Harris]

Scott...George...I see a need for each of you all to adopt Marksman63's approach, by incorporating a SEB Joy-pod with the PR&T stock. ??? Even if it does not solve your particular problems; at least, it will help you in a transition over to F-Open!!! ;D 8)

See you in a couple of weeks!

Dan

LOL! No worries Danny. I've dispatched my joystick-steering 12 yr-old and wife to duel with you in F-open ;D Funny thing, their front ends look just like yours.

 

[mysticplayer]

Jerry

What style of hold do you use with the bipod being so far out like that. Is it a little cheek pressure/little shoulder?

One of the older bulletin talked about the carbon fiber stock and almost a free recoil approach with a sled type bipod. I believe it was written about Mr Pierce and the m8chigan FTR team

I go with light cheek and shoulder pressure... I can't shoot free recoil (even if it were allowed)

No one shoots "free recoil" in F class. It's in the NRA rules somewhere.

Jerry

 

[Jay Christopherson]

No one shoots "free recoil" in F class. It's in the NRA rules somewhere.

Jerry

Well, not quite. There are plenty of shooters that shoot free recoil, mostly those shooting lighter calibers. 6BR and the like. It's not in the rules - there is statement that goes something like "shall be shot from the shoulder", which some people take to mean that the stock absolutely must be touching your shoulder. Which, IMO, is not quite right and until a match director disqualifies someone at a major match for shooting "free recoil", establishing a precedent, then it doesn't really matter which way your opinion goes.

BTW, I'm in agreement with others on bipod position - the further forward, the better for a variety of reasons.

 

[eric32]

Jerry

What style of hold do you use with the bipod being so far out like that. Is it a little cheek pressure/little shoulder?

One of the older bulletin talked about the carbon fiber stock and almost a free recoil approach with a sled type bipod. I believe it was written about Mr Pierce and the m8chigan FTR team

I go with light cheek and shoulder pressure... I can't shoot free recoil (even if it were allowed)

No one shoots "free recoil" in F class. It's in the NRA rules somewhere.

Jerry

I understand that it doesn't allow for free recoil but almost doesnt count =). But i do get the point of very light cheek pressure and shoulder pressure

 

[Lapua40X]

Did somebody say "physics"? One factor that I don't see fully explored here is the variety/style of bipod used. My Harris bipod doesn't have the ski like bases sliding on a soft carpet like some setups I've seen. Using my .284 in FTR, I like to pre-load my bipod. That means I certainly can't use a free recoil technique; even I'd want to. And even with a muzzle brake the muzzle jumps a bit. But I use a different technique when I take the 6BR to the range and, even though it too has a Harris bipod mounted on it, the caliber alone tells you that free recoil shooting doesn't move the cross hairs off target.
That's why I submit that simply moving the bipod further forward isn't necessarily the solution to reducing the inevitable muzzle jump when the rifle is fired. There are clearly a number of factors that have to be considered.

 

[Joe R]

Lapua40X said:
Using my .284 in FTR, ...

Am I having a senior moment here or ....? :

 

[Marksman63]

Happy for the interest on subject as I think rifle's stability and shooter's position are critical issues for F TR shooters, expecially when pushing heavy bullets in the 200-230gr range.
Of course my new stock reveals my shooting style, a very light stock grazing, almost free recoil. Shot following is practically not possible as NEVER my reticle returns back to aiming point after tracking. This is not an issue for "European Championship" shooting rule, as you have enough time for setting back your aiming point while waiting for your partner shot.
On the countrary it could be an issue when you have the possibility to shoot very fast "strings" in order to exploit a wind stable condition.
Therefore, just adopting Formula 1 terms, for F TR shooters a bipod is our wing/spoiler. Its correct shape/set up is critical for the car's stability

 

[Alexander-M]

Lapua40X said:
Using my .284 in FTR, ...

Am I having a senior moment here or ....? :

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Am I also having such a moment?

Nando

 

[Joe R]

Marksman63 said:
Shot following is practically not possible as NEVER my reticle returns back to aiming point after tracking.

I guess this means your rifle hops from the recoil? I'm shooting the 200 hybrids and I have not found a way to avoid "the hop". Has anyone?

Joe