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F-Class Repair Centers & League Scoring

Highpower/F-Class Shooters,

My name is Keith Roberts and I am the Match Director for the 600 yard and 1,000 yard prone matches held at Tulsa Red Castle Gun Club. There are two items on the agenda for the 2016 Highpower Committee Meeting that I am aware of and would like to get opinions or support for.

The first is a carryover from last year’s meeting, the size of the 600 yard F-Class repair centers. The current NRA approved repair center is 37” square and replaces the entire 6-Ring. Now I have only been shooting F-Class for about 6 years and I have only traveled to a few other ranges to do it, but I have never seen a 6-Ring shot out. I know that an adhesive backed, 8-1/2” X 11” repair center was presented at last year’s meeting. I have used these and they usually repair the portion of the target that gets the most damage. I was told by the NRA that another option was presented at the same meeting, and since the board couldn’t decide which one to choose, they tabled it until this year. My first question is, why does it have to be one or the other? It seems like any portion of the target that can be produced to accurately replace that portion of the target, should be approved by the NRA. Any target manufacturer that can produce a product that meets the NRA’s tolerances and is willing to pay (I assume) the NRA’s licensing fee, should be able to produce approved targets at whatever portion of the target their customers request. I don’t know what the other option was, but anything has to be an improvement over what is currently available.

The other item is the entering of scores for leagues. I have asked that this be placed on the agenda to get clarification of the rules. Currently, if you set up a league through the NRA, you submit the total number of points earned and the total number of shots fired by each individual that participates in the league. This means that you have to maintain the average of a higher classification for the entire league in order to reclassify up instead of just the 120 shots as required by Section 19.17 of the rules. Section 19.4 says that league scores may not be entered until the league is complete, but doesn’t address whether they should be entered as individual 45 or 60 shot matches or as the sum of all matches held in the league. As an example, I had a shooter last year that shot 5 of our 7 league matches. His first match of the season was not good, but the other 4 were. If you look at his entire season, he qualified Expert. If you look at his last four matches, he qualified Master. If you look at his best 120 shot (2 match) string, he qualified High Master. There are two problems with this. First, if he goes to a bigger match where awards are given for the various classifications, he is unfairly competing with other shooters that may normally only shoot at an Expert level. Second, many shooters shoot for the personal goal of higher classification, but, if their club shoots as a league, they waste an entire season by having one bad day.

The reasons for a club to choose to shoot a league instead of individual matches are:

  1. Cost. For my club last year, we had 7 matches in our league. With the number of shooters we had, the cost to submit scores as a league was about $85. To enter the same scores as individual matches was over $1,000. (NRA sets the fees)

  2. Convenience. The NRA doesn’t allow for emailed spreadsheets with scores. Scores for each match have to be mailed to them.
I apologize for getting so long winded here, but what I hope is that either members of the HP Committee will see this and, combined with my and others comments, put thought into their decisions on these matters or, those of you that know members of the committee will share your opinions and help get these matters resolved.

Thanks,

Keith Roberts
 
The other item is the entering of scores for leagues. I have asked that this be placed on the agenda to get clarification of the rules. Currently, if you set up a league through the NRA, you submit the total number of points earned and the total number of shots fired by each individual that participates in the league. This means that you have to maintain the average of a higher classification for the entire league in order to reclassify up instead of just the 120 shots as required by Section 19.17 of the rules. Section 19.4 says that league scores may not be entered until the league is complete, but doesn’t address whether they should be entered as individual 45 or 60 shot matches or as the sum of all matches held in the league. As an example, I had a shooter last year that shot 5 of our 7 league matches. His first match of the season was not good, but the other 4 were. If you look at his entire season, he qualified Expert. If you look at his last four matches, he qualified Master. If you look at his best 120 shot (2 match) string, he qualified High Master. There are two problems with this. First, if he goes to a bigger match where awards are given for the various classifications, he is unfairly competing with other shooters that may normally only shoot at an Expert level. Second, many shooters shoot for the personal goal of higher classification, but, if their club shoots as a league, they waste an entire season by having one bad day.


Hi Kieth, I only know of one way around this and that is to shoot non-approved and keep say your best 4 scores for the season. I went to this because we had guys sitting out the windy days to preserve their average rather than attending those days. This had a immediate effect on attendance and was a good choice for our situation at the time. It also opened up the options of a "anything goes" class and so created more attendance of first time shooters as well. This quickly evolved into a bench class that is growing rather fast. The shooters can still get classified at the club special events that are NRA approved but the monthly budget was freed up for medals and a lunch after the match.

Read my post that stuck to your quote^^^
 
For several years, I did a "mini approved match" during our summer league consisting of (2) 20 shot matches shot each of three consecutive weeks for a total of 120 shots. We did this in the middle of the season so new shooters could get some experience and get a classification before the big tournaments. It worked well and the NRA treated it as one match. Past experience with leagues is shooters cherry pick their nights or use excuses like fire forming to not turn in poor scores.

As far as targets, we have a printer make some 8.5x11 repair centers that we use for our non-approved leagues. Far cheaper and easier than the big targets. Sometimes the NRA needs a little boot in the behind!

Scott
 
Our club cuts the big centers down to a square that splits right through the "8". They're very manageable, and I'm not sure why they don't make them that way to begin with.

And I agree - the league classification rules are confusing and contradictory (they way I read them). You shouldn't be penalized for shooting in a league.
 
These are exactly my point. We shouldn't have to cut down approved targets to make them more convenient or come up with 'work arounds' for getting scores in or shoot non-approved matches. This is our sport and it should be managed the way we want it to be, not by what is most convenient for those that draw wages from our entry fees and dues. We can't even submit scores via a spreadsheet to make their lives easier. It would be easy enough for the NRA to provide a blank score spreadsheet to be filled out and emailed back. Then all they would have to do is combine the data with an existing database. I was actually told by someone at the NRA 'well that's how we do it with the pistol shooters too'. I don't care. They have their own rules that should be followed. That doesn't make it right for us.
 
600 F-Class Centers are a bust.
I would call National target and try to get them to make a smaller repair center.
This was done for 1000 yard targets.
Money to be had by them because more and more shooters are going F-Class .
 
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At our range we use the adhesive rectangular center and it cover probably 95% of the shots (and 70% of mine:eek:). I assumed it met NRA sanctioning standards. They certainly are easier than getting out the roller and glue and align perfectly over the target center.
 
At our range we use the adhesive rectangular center and it cover probably 95% of the shots (and 70% of mine:eek:). I assumed it met NRA sanctioning standards. They certainly are easier than getting out the roller and glue and align perfectly over the target center.

John James out of TN makes the adhesive repair centers but they are not NRA approved last I heard. They are by far the best fix I have seen for F Class targets. You just can't use them in Regionals or State championships.
 
My understanding of the rules is that it is not even "legal" to cut down a target with the NRA seal to make a smaller repair center. The repair center or the whole target must include the NRA seal to be official. Any target or partial target without the official NRA seal is not allowed for approved or registered matches.

Most of our league shooters average 190 or higher, about half are 195 or higher so a 10-X ring repair center lasts about 2 strings. It sure is easier to replace a small portion than the entire face every 2 strings! At our club, we don't even waste our time with the 300 yard targets anymore, maintenance is too costly and time consuming. We shoot 600 yards all year. Eventually the NRA will listen......
Scott
 
I don't see anyone complaining about "unofficial" targets. Nobody wins shooting 8's anyhow. But it does seem pretty reasonable to change those rules.

I'm more concerned about the league classifications. League shooters are often way under-classed. I'm currently a Master, but would be High Master if every match were submitted. That's not fair to the guys shooting regular matches. I don't see the point of the league rules at all.
 
600 F-Class Centers are a bust.
I would call National target and try to get them to make a smaller repair center.
This was done for 1000 yard targets.
Money to be had by them because more and more shooters are going F-Class .
Don,

I have asked this of American Target and was told they couldn't without NRA approval.
 
Don,

I have asked this of American Target and was told they couldn't without NRA approval.
Try national Target and give the NRA a call , you could become the man the changed the sport.
I would get involved but the last Range I finished in Oregon ! Helped me out the door when the work was done.
One hell of a bad taste in my mouth !!!!!!!!!!!
 
Our club called a couple of target printers on this issue of 600yd F-CLASS target centers but they required a minimum order that we could not meet.
 
When I was still involved in the matches at the Port Malabar Rifle & Pistol Club, I had National Target make 10,000 small Repair centers. They worked great. The number font was a size off and I had some complaints about that. However, They worked well.
 

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