F-Class Nationals Lodi, Wi

[BobLor]

Where is the interview with Will Dixon our new f/tr champ for 2016? must be waiting on results?

That would be Rich Dixon from Michigan, member of the Michigan F tr team. And yes an interview would be nice.

 

[XTR]

First let me make clear that I personally did not attend the FCNC this yr. It was not e-targets that kept me away, but the prospect of a recently installed system that had not been tested under full match conditions kept me from making the efforts which I could have made in order to arrange to be there. (does that make sense)

My one major long term concern with E targets was/is the potential for them to convert F class into a machine gun match. That seems to have been largely addressed. (one further comment below)

That said.

I've read pretty much every post on every thread here since the match. Taking in those from people who were there. Before the match I had an immediate concern about Lodi and that the system had not been fully tested under match conditions before the FCNC and reading the post match comments it seems that was to some extent valid.

The rules and software for handling and controling of the rate of fire have not been completely worked out (at least it seems so to me, and I hope there will be some tweaks) I have no doubt that those things will be worked out, but again, it is still being worked out, and the match is over. .


Lastly. [gripe]

I understand from reading here that there was infiltration firing. I object to that idea at the FCNC, rather strongly actually. At the FCNC with seeded squadding relay position/luck of the draw should not be an issue in deciding the National Champion, and in the case of infiltration squadding the potential/probability exists. Anyone who was at Phoenix this yr with a slow first shooter, or a shooter who had finished and left the line when the sirocco blew in, and Mid called for infiltration, can attest to what that can mean to your score. Seeded squadding is one of the things that F class does at the FCNC that HP does not do at the National Matches at Perry. I've shot at both venues, seeded squadding is better, and that improvement should be preserved and not diluted. [/gripe]

As an alternative, do what the rest of the world has figured out for ranges with limited capacity. Shoot pairs or 3 to a mound vs string fire (kind 'o obvious to me but haven't seen it commented on), though I can already hear the objections from the Open shooters *pulls on asbestos underwear*

 

[Heman]

Well I know your wanting to grip about everything, but at Fullbore championships in 2014 we infiltrated and it was done in 2015 also for Fullbore along with the World Championships. Not sure what your big issue with that is. We open infiltrate at Atterbury with the e-targets and it works just fine.

 

[XTR]

Shawn, my objection to infiltration has nothing to do with E targets, and I only note what is done at Camp Perry with regard to seeding as a point of reference in that I think seeding is far and away better than the shoot-off system. The comparison is used to illustrate the difference. I am not attempting to enter into a discussion as to the relative merits of the two systems.

Neither is my comment about the infiltration at Phoenix a gripe, it was at the time the best call to make and I think everyone who was there was glad Mid made that call, but 5 minutes one way or the other when you got on the line made a difference in your score.

The seeded squadding used at the FCNC allows a shooter to reasonably expect to be shooting in the same conditions, within a couple of targets, as their closest competitors, time taken and differing conditions from the beginning to the end of the relay are based on your own choices, not whether you are behind someone who finishes in 10 minutes or 28. With infiltration there is a fair chance that is not the case. There is a pretty good chance that you could end up getting on the line 10 minutes after the guy in front or behind you in the standings is finished shooting. I don't think that is what we want in F class, it's certainly not a position in which I wish to find myself.

 

[memilanuk]

Yes, infiltration works. Whether its an optimal choice for a championship match... is debatable. Just because it has done in the past, doesn't mean it a good idea going forward. We'll probably end up using infiltration on our local range for e-targets, mainly because we only have a few, and it gets the match done quicker. Yay, everybody's happy.

For a national championship... the top F/TR shooters should really be on the same relay, and the top F-Open shooters should really be on their own relay, so its a true apples-to-apples comparison. Infiltration screws that up for every relay after relay #1.

IMHO, for a National championship if you can't get the shooters through in a reasonable amount of time without resorting to infiltration... either reduce the number of slots available for registration, or you shouldn't be running a tournament of that size on that range to begin with.

 

[Lbart]

+1

 

[B Nettesheim]

The shooter who can lay down and fire the string and not be bothered the time of day, infiltrating, or weather conditions, will concentrate more on conditions and where the shots are landing and win the match.

 

[Ringostar]

The infiltration was done because of rain threat.

 

[Lbart]

The shooter who can lay down and fire the string and not be bothered the time of day, infiltrating, or weather conditions, will concentrate more on conditions and where the shots are landing and win the match.

Definitely yes, if he is shooting under the same conditions everyone else is shooting under. Everything possible should be done to make things as equal as possible. Continuously seeding by day is the way to go.

 

[memilanuk]

The shooter who can lay down and fire the string and not be bothered the time of day, infiltrating, or weather conditions, will concentrate more on conditions and where the shots are landing and win the match.

Thats a nice theory. Unfortunately, those of us who've been around the block a time or three have seen (or experienced) times where it fails miserably.

Case in point... just off the top of my head... 2011 Irish FCNC, 2013 FCWC, and the list goes on. Who shoots in what conditions plays a very big part in tournaments all across the land, every year.

 

[Earl338]

To All
I have again read most of the posts and I want to assure all the the squading Will be taken care of for next year. yes we made a few mistakes this year.
Next when the program goes out we will explain the squading as to how it may be done there are several options. Right know my choice is 2 shooters rely 1&2 will put there gear on the firing point together at the same time rely 1 will fire and after he finishes realy 2 will fire and than realy 3&4 will tha repeate the same and than 5&6 will fire. They will be seed squaded on the first day acording to 2016 finish. I doint know any way that is more fair And we will try to keep all the f tr and f open on the same relaly .. But that is a tall order unless there is exactly the same number of tr and open shooters there will be some tr on the same realy with open shooters.Also what can happen is that if seed squading is done again after the first day Some people could be on the same realy the next day or they could be on realy 5or 6 for a couple days in a row. This will bring out complants. I think that the best way is squad the first day acording to last years attendance and keep all of those shooters on the same realy just rotate the relays so everyone gets a morning realy and an afternoon realy. There are a few mo options that we could do we will get together and figure out wich will be the most efficent and the fairest way.
I will guarntee that 2017 well run smother and if we can get the shooters to move eficently it will be brtter.
Also if I do my work and planning propley I will shoot the championships.
I am planing to be in Pheonix see all of you folks there.


It is easyer to shoot in the middle you doint have to move the gun around as much


EARL


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