F-Class Hint

[xs hedspace]

Just read the article on F-class--great read. One item he didn't mention is the problem of the inexperienced scorer. Twice I've been blessed(?) with a inexperienced scorer, and after I fired all my 20 shots, have the scorer come up and inform me that I had 2 or three shots to go!! If you shoot fast, like he recommends, and you put several shots in a row in the same place in the 10 or X ring, the scorer thinks it was the same shot, if he isn't paying attention. I now let the scorer know that I shoot fast, and to pay close attention. I got so annoyed (besides getting back into position) once, I blew an ugly 8 doing the last three shots. I even showed the scorer the 20 empty pockets in my ammo box, labeled 1000 yds score, didn't convince him. Arrrgh!

 

[effendude]

I have had similar experiences, even with High Master shooters scoring for me when I was starting out in OTC. They were too busy adding up their scores, watching others, etc. that thy missed my shots.

We try to train all shooters to explain what they want the scorers to do. Most want their scores called out, with an added line of "first shot for record is an 10" and so on. It is much easier to keep track of rounds fired for both.

Scott

 

[Immike]

I have a good story too! A man brought his young son to a match for the first time and I got lucky and was his first person to score. I wasn't sure what he was doing because he only called my sighters and was being young and quite. I called out for a report a couple times and gave up on it and didn't want to pressure the boy at his first match. When I was on my last 2 shots the line officer looked over the boys shoulder and tried to stop me from shooting. I knew I was on a fresh target and kept going. He had only wrote down my first shot and the rest of my score card was blank. They scored it in the pit and it all worked out fine. 200-15x. Not a target I would want to take DNF on or get the one shot score for. He did just fine after that shake up. What a first relay for a kid. I enjoyed the lesson and I make sure my score keeper is up to the task now. Mike

 

[memilanuk]

Did you have your scorer calling out the value for every shot?

Per the rules, that is the correct procedure - see rule 14.3.1(c). If the scorer is calling out your shots, and you're paying attention to what they're saying... then its usually pretty easy to catch a missed shot right away. Yes, its annoying to have to call out 'DID YOU GET THAT?' but its a lot less annoying than getting to the end of the string and having to argue about whether you have rounds remaining.

Assuming you lose the argument - and most of the time, you will... - then you have to get back down and fire the missing rounds, and at that point your head ain't in the right place, so inevitably, you're going to drop an X or a point. One of those Murphy's Law type of things The *only* time I've won those arguments was when I had a plot sheet handy and we could figure out exactly where they missed a shot. Spent cases in a loading block or ammo box never seems to convince 'em

Also note... if you tell the scorer to *not* call out your shot values, you forfeit any right to challenge the recorded score.

I know it can be hard to hear the shot values at times - between the gun fire and plugs/muffs, etc. but it behooves you to make *sure* your scorer is keeping up. *Especially* if you shoot fast.

YMMV. This is stuff I've learned the hard way. It's not always the scorer's fault - sometimes they blink or look away at the wrong moment, and miss a quick target pull. Sometimes someone comes up to them asking them questions - including the range officer - when they're *trying* to do their job. To me, it's kind of like cross-fires... sooner or later, when you score, you're going to miss a shot somewhere.

Back when I started out and the guy next to me missed a shot during a 500yd prone stage while scoring for a well known and prominent HM shooter... the competitor (kind of old and cranky anyways) fixed him with a glare and told him that if *he* had been scoring for a HM shooting all 10s and Xs, and had missed a shot while scoring... he'd probably take the leap of faith that he missed an X in the middle somewhere and quietly mark it as such. While there is a certain logic to that... bullying the scorer (a beginner at his second match) because you don't keep a plot sheet and didn't pay attention to the scores being called out is poor form, in my opinion.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[6BRinNZ]

Interesting - for regional and National matches we have two scorers, one with the score card and one working a chalk board. The two have to match, if they don't its not the shooters issue.

The person with the score card is advising the shooter first on, half way, two to go and all out...plus every shot value is called out.

Club days I couldn't care (there is only one on the score card) - more shots is just more practice..I use the "extra shots" as practice for how I asses and approach the shoot if I say had a ceasefire in the middle of a relay for an important match.

 

[BradY]

I guess thats the bonus of electronic targets- takes away the human factor. Though when they arent working correctly they are a PITA.

 

[SDDasher]

Our match director almost without fail announces before each match that the scorers responsibility is to first make sure the shooter actually fired which means you must watch your shooter; not others as they shoot or look through the spotting scope to watch the "cool" trace bullets make. The second responsibility is to then look to make sure the target goes down. The third responsibility is to log the shot and announce it if desired by the shooter. That makes it pretty hard to have any misunderstandings or mistakes on either party.

 

[CJ6]

I know you SURE helped me out at Harris, Scott, Thanks again. Roger T

 

[effendude]

I know you SURE helped me out at Harris, Scott, Thanks again. Roger T

Roger, Your fun has only just began. I look forward to seeing you once the temp gets back into the above zero range!
Scott

 

[broncman]

As a newcomer, scoring is the most unnerving thing! A lot of times their are not many practices and it is possible you get a complete greenhorn on matchday!

I was so damn nervous I did miss a score for my shooter and he was burning it up, shooting real fast at the end and looked down to write and completely missed a score. He was an older gentleman and was dissappointed but still verygood about it.

We need to school newcomers better on how matches are conducted..

 

[Immike]

I am probably one of the hardest people to score. I am waiting on the target to come up most of the time. I school my score person as to what is going to happen if the conditions are favorable and my blood is up.(always is). I have to stay focused and don't want to stop for anything but the conditions. I have watched people that don't take advantage of opportunity for score when they could have and shame on them. Shooting is about confidence and decisions. Mike

 

[vtmarmot]

As a scorer, you want to pay extra careful attention, because rarely, a shooter will try to fool you into thinking you missed an X or two. I always call out what shot for record it is, and the score, as I write them down. If they don't like it, they can ask for another scorer. I also try to watch their empty count and the number of rounds left unfired. You only need to be accused of blowing it once to make you wary.

 

[6Dasher]

Boy, the stories I can tell about the butt crews. :'(

We'll all have days like that, more than we want and ALWAYS on that details where it counts and you just can't have it ruin your shoot.

Pitt crews: You can't live with 'em, you can't shoot 'em. :

I always call out the score and the shot number; "Bull Five, nine on" and ask the other scorers to do the same. Most call it out, some get lost or still write down their own score instead of mine (UK, shooting rotations of 2/3).

 

[xs hedspace]

I don't remember if this guy was calling out each shot, since my ears are shot(Ft. Bliss hipower, 1962, M1s with cigarette filters for ear plugs!), and I'm wearing plugs. And pit crews... when I was tuning up a 6mm Rem I built, at a Palma match, I got scored a miss in the middle of some 10s and Xs. Scorer asked if I wanted to challenge, I said my score don't count anyway. Next relay we went into the pits to score, I pick up the spotter, there's a 6mm hole, with a scuff mark on the spindle. He pasted both holes, couldn't find another, marked a miss. Took the spotter disc home for a match trophy.

 

[XTR]

Usually my shooters don't shoot fast enough that I can't look at what's going on on the range. At Camp Perry I was scoring for Jeff Cochran, I figured out by the 3rd shot that with the speed of the pit service (which was the fastest I've ever seen anywhere) and the speed that Jeff fired, I barely had time to record the number on the card before I needed to get back into the scope. On at least 2 shots the target was already moving down when I got the score.

Then there was the shot that my puller called a ricochet miss in the middle of a 9s, 10s, string because he had to do a target repair. I hit the spindle and blew a hole in the X. It was one of my earliest matches and I didn't understand the challenge procedure back then, and my scores were pretty pitiful anyway.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Then there was the shot that my puller called a ricochet miss in the middle of a 9s, 10s, string because he had to do a target repair. I hit the spindle and blew a hole in the X. It was one of my earliest matches and I didn't understand the challenge procedure back then, and my scores were pretty pitiful anyway.

Ricochet miss - is that a legit call - blowing up spotters and putting large holes in the target isn't uncommon.

 

[memilanuk]

Ricochet miss - is that a legit call?

Yes, ricochets are scored as a 'Miss' (see 14.8). Technically if there is any doubt the puller is supposed to call the pit officer... but a lot of times at small/local matches there may not be a designated 'pit officer'. Usually its not too tough to tell if it was a ricochet - the dirt and crap coming off the berm is usually a big hint

 

[Immike]

We had to deal with this problem a few years ago. A man was shooting below his target and skipping them in. The puller was scoring the bullet holes and complaining about debris at the same time. I had to shut down the shooter to get it back on track.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Usually its not too tough to tell if it was a ricochet - the dirt and crap coming off the berm is usually a big hint

Or mud where we shoot...

 

[XTR]

It should have been pretty obvious that I hit the spindle. It wasn't in the beginning of the string. It was like the 8th or 9th shot. I didn't understand to challenge the call at that time or how that system worked. The puller had issues, he wasn't really physically up to all day in the summer heat. I think that may have been his last match. It did teach me the challenge system. I asked the MD how it should have been done after the match.