Ive just switched from Rem to Lapua brass in my 20 practical and unless I back loads right back to around the 3300fps mark I cant extract cases after firing them. Sized cases are fine, just the fired ones stick. Trim length is fine- ive trimmed a fired one down to just under 1.75" and it still sticks. Anyone got any suggestions? Im thinking I may have to get the reamer put back in it to take a couple of thou out and loosen it up a bit? Can anyone else give some insight into what may be causing this? No point having a 20 practical shooting 40gr bullets at 3300fps. I would have bought a 222 for that. Its ran up around the 3800fps mark with remington brass, but I wasnt happy with consistency. I fear now I may have to go back to it so I can actually use the rifle.
Extraction problems
- Thread starter BradY
- Start date
Is the bolt handle hard to raise, or to pull back and extract?
I take it your neck sizing only, and if so you may need to start using a body only die, to move the case body back in. Or FL re size the case every so often. I also dont know how many times your Lapua brass has been reloaded.
Mike.
I take it your neck sizing only, and if so you may need to start using a body only die, to move the case body back in. Or FL re size the case every so often. I also dont know how many times your Lapua brass has been reloaded.
Mike.
Mike's got you on the right track. I had an issue with my 6.5-284 cases sticking, with very difficult extraction. This only occurred after a few firings with neck-sizing only. The root cause was the lack of a shoulder bump AND increased body diameter down around the case head. I got a Redding body die to bump the shoulders about a thou, and size the body back down. The trouble disappeared after that. When I started to notice stiff extraction again, I would bump the shoulders with the body die, and be right back in business. Annealing every 3 firings or so also will also reduce the chance of this occurring.
As Mike mentioned though, the amount of firings on your brass would be good info to post to get the most accurate answer. The issue I had with extraction only happened after my brass was fired 3 or 4 times.
As Mike mentioned though, the amount of firings on your brass would be good info to post to get the most accurate answer. The issue I had with extraction only happened after my brass was fired 3 or 4 times.
You may need to get a .223 Rem small-base body die to use on new brass to reduce it a couple of thou if a standard resizer doesn't work.
I had this problem with Lapua 6mmBR brass in a minimum SAAMI spec no-turn chamber. About half the cases had an ever so slight interference fit at the rear end of the body. They gave slightly hard chambering, but you could not get them, out without a rod after firing.
A small-base Reddding body die solved the problem completely. The brass gradually 'remembers' its original form and needs another go around every four or five firings.
One thing to watch is that such body dies do hit the shoulder, so you need to make sure you don't set the shoulder back giving excessive headspace.
Laurie,
York, England
I had this problem with Lapua 6mmBR brass in a minimum SAAMI spec no-turn chamber. About half the cases had an ever so slight interference fit at the rear end of the body. They gave slightly hard chambering, but you could not get them, out without a rod after firing.
A small-base Reddding body die solved the problem completely. The brass gradually 'remembers' its original form and needs another go around every four or five firings.
One thing to watch is that such body dies do hit the shoulder, so you need to make sure you don't set the shoulder back giving excessive headspace.
Laurie,
York, England
Mic some new brass, both Remington & Lapua. If it's like most other Lapua, you will find it to be .001-.002 bigger toward the base than the Remington. If that is the case, your chamber may have been designed around RemChester type brass, and the only really satisfactory way to make the Lapua work is to have a gunsmith polish the chamber out a couple thousandths. If checking the new brass doesn't reveal anything interesting, next mic fired brass & compare it to unfired. Somewhere you are going to find a too tight dimension. Let us know what you come up with.
I use a type S FL die all the time. Lapua brass is turned down 1 thou on the outside of the necks all the way round. I took the bushing out of the die and ran the case through the die then chambered and it extracted fine. Im positive the lapua brass is a bit thicker than the remchester style cases so will go and get the reamer ran in another thou or two so everything fits better.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
If it was me, I'de work on the brass rather than touch the chamber. Also sounds like you need a body die or full length resize the case. Set the die so you don't touch the shoulder, just work the body back in. After about 4 or 5 firings I'll need the body die treatment and everyhting is good to go. I shoulder bump and neck size only. Only use the body die when needed. The less you move the brass around, the longer it will last. 
I would recommend that you discuss the problem with your gunsmith, and maybe send him some fired and unfired brass to check over. Did you mic the Lapua compared to the Remington?
On another tangent, you might buy some IMI ammo from Widener's, shoot it in whatever, and prep & try that brass. Widener's has the loaded ammo again, but not showing the unprimed brass like they used to have a few years ago. IMO, that is the best 223 brass ever made, but I haven't tried the latest Lapua. The IMI was much better than the Lapua of a few years ago in my own testing, which was fairly hot varmint loads.
On another tangent, you might buy some IMI ammo from Widener's, shoot it in whatever, and prep & try that brass. Widener's has the loaded ammo again, but not showing the unprimed brass like they used to have a few years ago. IMO, that is the best 223 brass ever made, but I haven't tried the latest Lapua. The IMI was much better than the Lapua of a few years ago in my own testing, which was fairly hot varmint loads.
I cant get IMI brass here in aus...
The cases are FL sized each time- hence why I put up its a type S die in my last post. I took the bushing out and ran the case back through so it was just body sized. Presto it extracts. So no problem with the necks. Its at the smiths now and I will know soon enough. Both of us were agreeing that remington brass just wasnt worth the effort, so the chamber will be re done to suit the lapua cases.
The cases are FL sized each time- hence why I put up its a type S die in my last post. I took the bushing out and ran the case back through so it was just body sized. Presto it extracts. So no problem with the necks. Its at the smiths now and I will know soon enough. Both of us were agreeing that remington brass just wasnt worth the effort, so the chamber will be re done to suit the lapua cases.
Sorry Brad, didn't realize you were from Australia. However, if you ever do have access to the IMI, give it a try. A thread I read through on one of the several shooting forums I try to keep up with stated that the IMI manufacturing facility was built with help from Lapua. That brass is really tough & strong in the head area, but well annealed in the shoulder/neck area, plus it is very uniform. I bought 2000 pcs a few years ago, and if memory serves correctly, I had 1600 of the 2000 that had less than .001 TIR in the necks and only varied about 1 1/2 grains in weight. I was really surprised how uniform it was since it is military type brass. Good luck with your project, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.
Cheers Joe
Hopefully it will be done in the next week so I can get back out and crank it up. The 20 practical is a ripper of a fox/rabbit and feral cat calibre and I miss not having it out with me. At the moment im limited to a 22lr and 20 guage shotgun plus a compound bow. I think getting back to the smaller cals will be a fun change.
Brad
Hopefully it will be done in the next week so I can get back out and crank it up. The 20 practical is a ripper of a fox/rabbit and feral cat calibre and I miss not having it out with me. At the moment im limited to a 22lr and 20 guage shotgun plus a compound bow. I think getting back to the smaller cals will be a fun change.
Brad
One thing that has been brought out in this thread is the use of the Redding "body only die", Nor-Cal Mikie mentioned it as did others, and I have several, and use them. But there name is a bit misleading, as they are a F.L. sizing die except for the neck. If brought down all the way to the shell holder they will reset the shoulder.
When I do my brass prep, I maintain the case headspace at .0015 with a Forester bushing neck, shoulder bump die,(this die never touches the case body) so when the time comes to need the Redding body only die, I dont bring it down all the way, I have it set to move the case body in just the minimum amount necessary, and it never touches the shoulder.
I think this duel purpose die use is some times confusing.
When I do my brass prep, I maintain the case headspace at .0015 with a Forester bushing neck, shoulder bump die,(this die never touches the case body) so when the time comes to need the Redding body only die, I dont bring it down all the way, I have it set to move the case body in just the minimum amount necessary, and it never touches the shoulder.
I think this duel purpose die use is some times confusing.
I'd back Mike's points up 100% on this. I found out the hard way that my Redding small-base body die moves shoulders too as the usual hard-on-the-shellholder setting set case shoulders back over 20 thou and created excessive headspace.
Like Mikem, I'm a fan of the new Forster bushing-bump die, an elegant way of getting bushing controlled neck-sizing while controlling the shoulder position and headspace, also much cheaper than the Redding Type S bushing die. It should be noted however, that an expander button is not included, so if used as supplied by Forster it should be reserved for brass that is either very consistent out of the baox or has been neck-turned to a greater or lesser degree to uniform the neck wall thickness.
Laurie,
York, England
Guessing that you did mic the neck walls and then measured the neck of a loaded round to compare to the neck of the rifle? I have a 20 TAC with a .232 neck and use the Dakota/Lapua brass with it and measure the necks on each loaded round, if it is not .230 I know it will be cause pressure. Most of my brass now has been neck turned to thickness of .012 which gives me necks at .228.
The other thing would be the OAL of the case, but you said you measure that. Had to trim mine after firing 3-4x'x because they had grown too much.
Good luck, will watch this post for updates.
The other thing would be the OAL of the case, but you said you measure that. Had to trim mine after firing 3-4x'x because they had grown too much.
Good luck, will watch this post for updates.
a lot of good info above gents, i would also like to add that a shoulder head space gage fitted to a vernier is one thing that is a necesity when setting up a die regardless of make. checking a fired case will give you a starting point to the amount of shoulder set back required for that particular chamber. if the die is settup to reveal .002-.003 set back and the case is still hard to close the bolt on there is a good chance your body is not resized sufficently. this is usually on the rear end of the case which can be fixed by using a small base die as mentioned, or i have found hornady 223 dies to be marginally smaller on the base area than a redding which has worked for me with some of my 223's. cheers Pete
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