Expected accuracy in 223 AR with varmint bullets?

[Viperdoc]

I have a 223 AR with a 7.7 Krieger barrel, and have finally found that it seems to like the Sierra MK 77's out of many other bullets. It will consistently shoot these at 0.5 or less, with five shot groups at 100 yards. If I were competing, this would be outstanding, but I also want to use the same gun for PD shooting.

Is there any hope for this barrel (with its 7.7 twist) to shoot bullets in the 50gr range with the same accuracy as I am now seeing with the Sierra heavy target bullets? I am talking about consistent five shot groups of less than 0.5, and would prefer to see better.

I have TAC, H335, H322, Varget, 2520, and H4895 as possible powders to choose from. So far it does not seem to like the Hornady 60gr V Max at all, shooting at best around 1". The Berger 64 Varmint bullets shoot OK, but still not as good as the heavier Sierra target bullets.

Anyone with a similar barrel twist ever get sub 0.5 minute groups with varmint type bullets, or is this hoping for too much?

 

[Scott Harris]

Try it and let us know. I think 55gr and higher would be no problem with a 1:7.7 twist. I don't hear about a lot of issues using a faster twist with light/short bullets. Mostly hear about the twist being too slow for longer/heavier bullets.

 

[Rock Knocker]

Yeah its pretty hard to say. The best performance ive gotten from the largest range of bullets would be comparable sizes with 69gr sierra match kings and 50gr v max. But im shooting a 1-9" also.

So test test test...

 

[Klong]

Try the 55gr or 60 gr Berger varmint bullets!

 

[Viperdoc]

Try the 55gr or 60 gr Berger varmint bullets!

Any suggestions for starting choice of powders?

 

[twoodard]

both the 55 gr SP varmint nightmare mid south bullets and 55 vmax shoot less then .5 out of my 18 inch white oak armament varmint upper with 7 twist. yours should shoot well also

thats with H335 because it meters well in my progressive press

 

[jonbearman]

try either the hornady 52 grainhpbt or the 53 gr hpfb ,both are match bullets and will destroy a prarie dog.They destroy woodchucks so I am sure they will work.I use h335 and benchmark with some 3/8 th's inch groups with an 8 twist.

 

[lpreddick]

my 8 twist 22-250 and 22 br spin the 60 and 64 bergers apart! they puff at about 30 yards out...didn't think i was missing the target completely! the 60 grain sierras stay together and group nicely with varget and vhitavouri 540. 60 hornady v-max also shoot well. col can be a problem in the magazine, so clipping the tip of the hornadys just got them in the magazine. [[/quote]if i can see you, i can touch you. BANG!

 

[people]

I have a 1:8 twist and I am only shooting 50gr speer TNT bullets. I have heard some of the guys that are using 1:6.5 are shooting 52gr BTHP for 100yds compititions.

 

[Viperdoc]

I tried the 60 gr V- Maxes, but they didn't do well with TAC or H335. The Berger 64gr varmint bullets were better, but still not as good as the Sierra 77 MK. I did get some boxes of some 55- 60 gr varmint bullets but it is now in the single digits here in WI, so it is just too cold to sit at a bench while working up loads. Will make some ladders and wait for warmer weather.

Any other bullet powder combos work well(less than .5 moa) with these light bullets in a 7.7 twist?

 

[jonbearman]

Try 24.0 of blc-2 and work up to the max of 28.0 this will work with 52gr and 53 gr and try25.0 to 27.0 of h335 with either bullet.Work up slow,highest pressure and speed dont always equate best accuracy.

 

[TheOtherZilla]

ViperDoc, I think ya just need to keep trying loads.. My AR has a 1:8 twist.. I tried bullets in the 55-60 grain area with no luck.. Then I tried 50 grain Vmax's, and TAC among other powders and now get ~1/2" groups depending on how hard I try.. .. Could be you need to keep trying different things..

 

[pdog2225]

Viperdoc look in the articles section on this site.

In the "223 and 223AI" article down near the bottom is load chart. I tried the 69gr SMK w/AA2520 in my RRA 24" 8T and it was an excellant long range load for me. Give it a look.

For varmints try the 55gr vmax with 24.8gr AA2230 seated to mag length in win/r-p/fc cases. You may need to go up or down a little to find the best load for your rifle.
pdog2225

 

[jonbearman]

Can you tell us a little about the rifle,what kind of trigger,freefloated etc.

 

[Viperdoc]

Rifle is built from components, main parts are Krieger varmatch barrel 7.7 twist. Geisselle match trigger, nightforce nsx 8-32 scope. Free float tube with BR rest adapter. Testing done off a Sinclair front rest and rear BR bag (magpul stock).

Lapua brass, nt to 0.012(5), neck tension 0.003, Redding S dies, CCI SR primers, trimmed and chamfered, primer pockets uniformed.

Can try TAC, H335, H322, H4895, also have Varget and aa2520 for heavier bullets. Also have some CCI BR and Remington 7.5 primers as well.

An other advice appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[dan06]

My bushmaster predator with a 1-8 twist likes 55-60 gr varmit bullets. It really likes sierra 60 gr hp if I cut a slot in the front of a 20 round mag out so I can seat them out about 0.020 longer than mag legenth. It still feeds perfect. Load a few out and try them single load them to try before you cut a mag.

If you don't want to do that try some sierra semi pointed loaded to mag legenth. My last bushmaster shot them less than .5" at 100

 

[Rock Knocker]

I am really a reloading infant right now but the best group ive got is .5" and better at 120 yards with 24.8gr. varget with 69 sierra mk bthp, hornady brass and CCI 400 primers. I really like the grouping but these are the only bullets and powder ive reloaded with, ive more to try out. Best group is .316"!!!! and thats laying on the ground with a backpack as a rest, but i think it was luck. this is from a Model 1 sales.com kit varminter 24" 1-9" twist E.R. shaw barrel with DPMS lower, $750 rifle.

And dan im going to PM you about that mag cutting you have done i was thinking about trying this out but cant find any info.

 

[Larryh128]

I shoot a RRA 1-8 twist & it shoots 55 gr Nosler Ballistic tips well within .5 @ 100 yds. 26 grs of Benchmark. Varget also works well.

 

[jonbearman]

Viperdoc,it looks like you really did your homework.That sounds like a nice build. How do you like the geiselle,I almost bought one. I think once you start experimenting with the sierra match king in 69 grains(my favorite) on up to around 77 grains you will do the best. I have exceptional luck with the 69 grainer and I am working on loads now to try to improve the end result. You did a great build and I hope you find the sweet spot with that really nice barrel you have.

 

[Viperdoc]

I am really happy with the build itself- my son and I did it over a few days. It has been a great opportunity to do something together and learn as we go, and it was actually very easy and did not require anything special like a machine shop. We live in Wisconsin only 20 minutes from Krieger, and shoot at the same range as some of their guys, who have been great.

So far the 7.7 twist likes the 77smk the best, but I have some ladders loaded with the 69's as well.

However, I am looking for a good light varmint bullet/powder combo as well. Last year we shot some PD's using the smk 69's, and even at close range the target bullets tended to drill the dogs. Even at comparable ranges our little 17 hmr gave a more satisfying whack than the 69 match kings.

This is not surprising, but I am hoping to find a light bullet varmint load that has consistent 0.5 or better accuracy and can vaporize pd's as well. The Hornady 60 vmaxes with either tac or h335 never shot under an inch, no matter the load, and the Berger 64's did not do much better.

Never tried anything under 60, since I figured the 7.7 twist might destroy the bullets.

Of course, this is still an AR, so maybe I am hoping for too much, but my goal is to find a load with a 50-65gr varmint bullet that will consistently give a five shot .5 or better.