Expander Ball (or not)

[buskeen]

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor. I use the Redding Type "S" FL re-sizing die with titanium nitride bushings at 0.002" below the loaded OD of the neck on my brass. I have been using the "floating" carbide expander ball. It didn't come with the die, I ordered it seperate. Instead of being fixed on the de-priming shaft, it is allowed to travel or "float" up and down a bit supposedly to center it.
My question is, I think I am defeating the purpose of necking the brass down with the bushings by dragging this expander ball back through the neck. I am getting good results so I probably should let sleeping dogs lie, however I have read a lot of threads where it is recommended not to use the expander ball. What do you guys think?

 

[steve4102]

Yes, you are defeating the purpose of the Bushing die, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Then again, you may not be defeating the purpose of the bushing. Some use the bushing to size the neck just enough to cause the expander to drag it back open. This keeps the case neck from being over/under sized then forced back open causing unwanted work hardening and over working the brass.

 

[BoydAllen]

Are you turning your necks?

 

[buskeen]

BoydAllen,
If you are asking if I have a "tight" reamer chamber then no I am not turning for that purpose; just shaving off the "high sides" on non-concentric necks.

 

[bward]

Since you are turning you are making the necks concentric, so there is no need to run an expander. If you don't turn necks then you will have non-concentric necks and running them into a concentric bushing will just make them non-concentric on the interior of the neck. Obviously it is less than ideal to seat a bullet into this, so it is better to run an expander in order to push the non-concentric part of the neck back to the exterior and have concentricity on the interior.

 

[BoydAllen]

+1

 

[savageshooter86]

great information. I was wandering the same thing with my 308 bushing die whether to take the expander ball off or leave it on. I turned all my necks down and they are very uniform

 

[XTR]

I use an expander on new brass, after that I use a Lee collet for my 308s.

If you take the time to check you'll find that new brass usually has insane neck tension, like 6 thou or more, and the Collet die won't open that up enough.

 

[1shot]

bward,
Kudos to you for the best explanation of this subject I've heard in 40 years. Nothing more to be said.
Lloyd

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

I use the expander, because the neck tension is more important that the neck clearance. I turn the necks also. But get more consistency by using the expander ball.

 

[jsthntn247]

I was actually about to ask this same question before reading this thread. Does anyone know if the Hornady FL bushing dies use an expander or not? Buskeen, what bushing are your using with the factory chamber?

 

[buskeen]

bward,
I agree with your assessment, however the first thing that I do is re-size and de-prime, then clean, trim, chamfer, square and clean primer pockets and the last thing I do is turn the neck (if needed.) So what you say is not true unless you turn your neck before running them into bushing. Do you turn your case necks before re-sizing? I am specifically referring to fired brass, not new brass.

jsthntn247,
I don't have a factory barrel. It is a 30" Krieger with 1:8 twist.

 

[Raythemanroe]

may be nice for new dented brass!

 

[TrxR]

Wouldnt something like a K&M expander be a better setup than using the expander ball in the die?

 

[BoydAllen]

Several years back, I was stock using a standard one piece FL die to size some unturned .22-250 cases. As per usual, the ID of the die's neck was so small that I needed to expand them. I checked the results that I got using the die's expander, and compared it to what I got by sizing without the expander and then expanding as a separate step, using a Sinclair expander die and mandrel, as one would for turning necks. The expander die and mandrel produced superior results. Of course, I lubed the inside of the case necks, and removed the lube afterwords.