Excessive bullet runout?!!

[Okiecat]

Ok, I'm loading for a 22-243. I run lapua brass with a 75% neck turn to just clean'em up. I'm using redding dies, FL with a bushing and seater. My necks on fired brass are running about .001-.0015 of runout. When I seat the bullets they go about 35-40%--.002 to .003. Then about 25% are .005 to .006. I have a bonanza coax press and I have a rock chucker. Have used both same results. I also tried a forester die with the collets, same results.

 

[GerryM]

If the cases are consentric you should have less run out then that.
If you want them better maybe you would like the Wilson inline seater
and sizer for an arbour press.
That's what benchrest guys use a lot of.
I doubt the bullets are running out that much'''''

 

[BoydAllen]

Take the bushing out of your FL die and size a few fired cases, with a .001 bump from a tight case. Measure runout, at the end of the neck before and after. They should be virtually the same. Then add the bushing and do a few more, and measure those. Tell us what you find in both cases. Your best move is probably ordering a custom one piece FL die from Hornady, with the neck ID the same as your bushing. Send them some fired brass, and tell them how much of a reduction in diameter at the shoulder and about .3 up from the base, you want. I like .0005 to .001 at the shoulder, and about .002 above the head, with a .001 shoulder bump on work hardened brass.

 

[Laurie]

Since your sized case neck-runout is low, it suggests the problem is in the seating operation. With it being a wildcat, is there a mismatch between your case / cartridge and the seater die dimensions?

Laurie

 

[Winchester69]

What is your case-neck run-out after having sized the brass? If the problem's not in the sizing operation, then the seating operation is the cause. Check for bullet-tip contact with the seating plug before replacing the seater; there should be none, and the plug can be modified, or replaced with a different design supplied by the mfr. Should the seating die require replacement, get either the Redding micrometer die or a Forster; they have the guide-sleeve to better assure alignment.

 

[Okiecat]

Ok the runout on fired cases is all most zero. Just barely moves the needle. After sizing with bushing runout is .001 on ave. I have tried the bonanza sleeve seating die and didn't improve on averages of high runout. What about the vickerman seater? I was also considering the Wilson. I do have an arbor press. It looks like it is a seating problem,right?? Also I'm seating 80gr. Bergers

 

[Winchester69]

Blacken the tip of a reloaded bullet and insert it into the seating die. You're probably making contact with the tip, which causes the bullet to tilt when seating. Redding should have an alternate seating plug that will work with the Bergers.

 

[bheadboy]

brass has to strreach when you seat to allow the bullet in, thus if the density or hardness of the brass is variable, the runout you are getting is from the brass thinning unevenly when allowing th bullet into it, tempering the necks after turning will help cure the problem

 

[Mikem]

Hears a test for you, load some rounds, check them for bullet run-out, and using a permanent marker pin, put a mark on the high side of the case neck. Then fire them again, and reload them again, now recheck them for run out, and again mark the high side of the neck. If the two marks are in the same place on the case neck, the problem is in the case wall thickness all the way down, not just in the neck. You may find this common in your cases with run-out.
M.

 

[Okiecat]

Thanks to everybody. Lot of wisdom out there. The cases in my opinion are ok and not the problem. They are on there 3rd loading and are lapua. The run out on sized cases is around .001. I have tried the turning the case as you push the bullet in. I also have the right bullet seater for the die, the deep one. I tried some 75 amax today with same results. If I could get them to be consistent and around .003 I would probably be happy. I am also very conscious about bullet grip and try to keep it fairly light for consistency.

 

[Mikem]

The thing is, if the case body including the shoulder is thicker and stronger on one side, it can resist bending or compressing, even when you seat the bullet, causing bullet run out. Don't get me wrong, this may not be your problem, but its an easy check, and it could be the problem. If the marks are always in the same place, what else could it be. Its certainly food for thought. ???
M.

 

[MJC]

As suggested in a previous post, check the difference in size of your resized cases and the seater die sleeve.
How much are the necks being sized down? I tried a couple Redding FL bushing dies in the past and the necks were being sized eccentrically.

 

[Okiecat]

thanks MJC, I have recently talked to Mikem and I think I'm getting it. Weather is terrible and will be a while before I can test. But man you gotta quit using those fancy words. Had to look that one up. Ha

 

[Mikem]

OK-Cat: Ive talked with several about that simple runout test, so when you guys get a thaw and can get out to shoot, give a few cases that test. It could really get you to thinking about what could cause this, and the list is short. But just maybe you can come up with a fix, then share it. You know the old saying "two heads are better than none".
I like to have my bullets with the least amount of runout possible, and of course I only use Lapua brass, but its still a concern.
Man are we picky or what?
Mike.

 

[MJC]

thanks MJC, I have recently talked to Mikem and I think I'm getting it. Weather is terrible and will be a while before I can test. But man you gotta quit using those fancy words. Had to look that one up. Ha

Fancy words.. yeah, I had to use spel cheker on it! HaHa
Please keep us posted on your progress with the runout issue.