Ever had a successful load for short range br jumping.020 or more?

[NC/Br Shooter]

Question is as titled.
Reason I ask this is because Iv yet to shoot with anyone that shoots that far away from lands.
Given Iv not been shooting competitively long therefore not really asked everyone Iv shot with either. I'm taking mainly 6 br, ppc, 30br shooters.
To me, it seems it's a matter of how close you are to lands or how far in you are. Even with all the loads I read on the forum. So I'm wondering if it's even worth trying once you get to a .020 jump and haven't found a decent load.
I don't have a barrel I'm trying to do this in , just curious about a situation like that if it's worked for anyone.
Thanks

 

[JEFFPPC]

No.....6br, 6ppc, 30br, 6brx. No never. I have always started with a square mark and backed out .002 at a time. With the ppc I had several barrels shot great at the square mark. I read daily guys shooting 100s of shots trying this and that and then some more hunting a load. Oh, then there are the 10 shot groups. I find a competitive load with the fewest shots possible. I want maximum premium rounds in competition, not playing at the range. If you don't shoot competition a guess it does not matter.

 

[AlNyhus]

While that far 'off' would be unusual for 100-300 yd. Benchrest with the BR/PPC cases and bullet lengths normally used for this...I'd never say never. Ultimately, your targets will tell you the truth.

I have seen a couple BR level barrels that showed excellent accuracy at two different spots...very far 'in' and very far 'out'. I suspect that what we were really seeing was a timing issue relative to where the muzzle was in it's movement cycle rather than strictly the result of the jam/jump.

I did have one barrel chambered in a .165 short 308W that absolutely refused to shoot well with the standard jam-seat setup. Out of frustration, I just started seating the bullet back in .010 increments. At .040 back from the 'T.P.' (touch point), that barrel just came alive and pounded them into a hole. It exhibited the same accuracy through another .020. Totally weird.

The chamber end was cut off and the barrel rechambered with the same reamer. And the barrel showed the same exact behavior as before. The reamer was one we had used many times before so it was a proven reamer. The barrel maker and style of rifling was also one I'd used many times and continued to use after this.

Because it was so far out of the norm, I got the yips about using it in registered IBS or NBRSA tournaments and relegated it to fire forming duty...likely unfairly so.

Sometimes, it's the exceptions that prove the rule.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[boltfluter]

No. Every competitive rifle I have ever used did best around. 020 to .040 into the rifling. One came alive at .050 into the rifling, pushing the bullet into alignment I would assume. I am sure there's exceptions to this rule, but this has been my experience with some very accurate rifles. Good luck with your testing!
Paul

 

[dkhunt14]

I can't remember ever having a barrel that shot better off the lands. Didn't matter if it was a Dasher, 300 WSM or anything else. Matt

 

[tmwinds]

All of my short range shooting was with a .30BR.
My most accurate loads had .004-.005 neck tension and jammed hard into the lands. Just don’t try pulling a loaded round.

 

[MasterYoda]

No.....6br, 6ppc, 30br, 6brx. No never. I have always started with a square mark and backed out .002 at a time. With the ppc I had several barrels shot great at the square mark. I read daily guys shooting 100s of shots trying this and that and then some more hunting a load. Oh, then there are the 10 shot groups. I find a competitive load with the fewest shots possible. I want maximum premium rounds in competition, not playing at the range. If you don't shoot competition a guess it does not matter.

What he said !!

 

[Pete Wass]

What I have done for years is find the spot where land marks are faint dots and use that for my base line or bench mark. I then go in .006" and then find the powder charge that will give a one bullet hole three shot group. At.006" in from "Touch" one can always open the bolt without pulling a bullet. I have found, almost without exception, that I can tune a barrel using that seating depth. I have never jumped. I know it works for many but I just never have done it, for no specific reason other than old people don't like CHANGE. A close friend who used to shoot with us inadvertently got bullets seated at .009" off the lands and it shot so well there, he stayed there. Whatever works but I simply do not want to be pulling bullets if a primer fails or an emergency arises that prevents one from firing. As to jamming hard, one can only go in as far as case neck grip or powder amount allows. I use .002" of neck tension set with a mandrill and find it to be pretty nice.

 

[wildcatter]

NOPE! .003" TO .012" HAS BEEN MY SWEET SPOT IN SEVERAL, 1-10 twists, to 1-8 twists, 62 grain to 108 grains.

 

[Pete Wass]

Question is as titled.
Reason I ask this is because Iv yet to shoot with anyone that shoots that far away from lands.
Given Iv not been shooting competitively long therefore not really asked everyone Iv shot with either. I'm taking mainly 6 br, ppc, 30br shooters.
To me, it seems it's a matter of how close you are to lands or how far in you are. Even with all the loads I read on the forum. So I'm wondering if it's even worth trying once you get to a .020 jump and haven't found a decent load.
I don't have a barrel I'm trying to do this in , just curious about a situation like that if it's worked for anyone.
Thanks

I have a friend who says 6 BR's are all about jumping bullets and he has successfully shot his over they years jumping .050" I still use .006" into the lands. Two of my shooting compadres shoot 6 BR's in Heavy Varmint rifles. One shoots just touching and the other around .006" in. Those settings work in the barrels those lads have. Perhaps each barrel will demand a different location so it's one of those things one must experiment with. Using published loads, start there and try different combinations and almost always one can find what the barrel likes. Not all barrels are created equal, unfortunately. If the second shot doesn't go into the same hole as the first, don't bother shooting a third, save it for it's components or to re seat to another seating depth. It helps to have a good bullet puller, a comparator on a Vernier and a micrometer seater.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The last big match I shot without a tuner was I think the 2008 IBS score Nats, the year hurricane Ike went all the way to the Great Lakes.

I went pre loaded for my 30 Major with a load that shot great, anywhere around here. But, 500 miles north and a low pressure front going through, and that load wouldn't shoot in a bucket.

I typically loaded that bullet at about .008 into the lands and it never let me down until then. The only thing I brought to tune with was a 30 BR seater die. For whatever reason, it was set to seat the bullets to about .030 off. I finally pushed several back with that die and the gun came alive. It was too late by then but the rest was on me from there on out. I still typically load just about everything at or into the lands that I compete with but I got lucky and that jump worked at that time. So yes, I think it's just another tuning aspect and that sometimes they'll shoot either way.

 

[Pete Wass]

The last big match I shot without a tuner was I think the 2008 IBS score Nats, the year hurricane Ike went all the way to the Great Lakes.

I went pre loaded for my 30 Major with a load that shot great, anywhere around here. But, 500 miles north and a low pressure front going through, and that load wouldn't shoot in a bucket.

I typically loaded that bullet at about .008 into the lands and it never let me down until then. The only thing I brought to tune with was a 30 BR seater die. For whatever reason, it was set to seat the bullets to about .030 off. I finally pushed several back with that die and the gun came alive. It was too late by then but the rest was on me from there on out. I still typically load just about everything at or into the lands that I compete with but I got lucky and that jump worked at that time. So yes, I think it's just another tuning aspect and that sometimes they'll shoot either way.

Same thing happened to me years ago in Iowa. I went preloaded with two rifles and neither of them shot. Did the same with re-seating and found something that worked OK but not a winning combination. So, what could have gone wrong sez I ? Welll, the range was roughly 1500' ASL, as I recall, vs 200' at home so I deduced that the altitude change threw the load off. Unfortunately, for me, I had removed my tuners before I left for the trip so did not have them to help me. It was early days with tuners then and a friend was able to save his weekend with the tuner on his rifle and won the class he shot in.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Do a seating depth / charge loadup.

 

[Evan]

Just add to the chorus, but from an LR BR perspective: Ive never had a barrel shoot better jumped more than a couple thousandths and most preferred a jam. I didn’t test way out of the lands though.

 

[Field_2_Fork]

As a new SR BR (LV) shooter I always find these discussions interesting, and usually somewhat contradictory to what I've been taught. Up here in Canada, the 'agreed upon' method seems to be that a jump of ~.007 - .009 from touch is where it's at. Given that every rifle is different etc, but the general consensus is to start testing at .005 jump and work back away from the lands. Yet here, most seem to be into the lands.
I need to do some more testing.

 

[JFrank]

Guys,
Shouldn’t bullet design ( tangent , secant or hybrid ) play a part in whether you’re jumping or jamming ?

 

[Ccrider]

I have a 6br that shoots best off the lands at .025 off the lands. It seems to be the exception for me. I spent a lots of time trying to make it shoot loaded into the lands.

I don’t agree that it is a waste of time or components systematically testing seating depth and charge to get the absolute best of both for each barrel.

I do agree that you can start at a seating depth into the lands known to work and it may shoot well. Doing this, you can sometimes leave better accuracy on the table. To each his own!

 

[jimmymac]

There is no magic answer, although my experience has been bullets seated in the lands works better. I test everything that I can because I don’t know what I don’t know.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

As a new SR BR (LV) shooter I always find these discussions interesting, and usually somewhat contradictory to what I've been taught. Up here in Canada, the 'agreed upon' method seems to be that a jump of ~.007 - .009 from touch is where it's at. Given that every rifle is different etc, but the general consensus is to start testing at .005 jump and work back away from the lands. Yet here, most seem to be into the lands.
I need to do some more testing.

Other methods can certainly work but I typically start at what I call full jam...as far into the lands as the neck tension will allow, and then start backing out. The beauty is there's only one way to go this way. With some bullets, I may start with a little less jam, if I know that bullet typically does well with less but still just work outward. And yes, it's pretty common to find your best load in a range of between about .010 in and .010 off. Different shapes of bullets play into it too a bit. Some like less jam or maybe even a bit of jump but not often, IME. As someone else said, I do think it's much like tuners and it repeats. The trick is finding the intervals. Same with tuners.

 

[NC/Br Shooter]

Iv had loads that worked with 105 and 108s jumping. Up to .030.s.
But never light pills. 62s, 68s, 70s.
I got some 80s that like a .010 jump. Iv verified that one several times.
I find it really wild that.005 this. Can make that much of a difference.
I saw a guy do a video a while back and he had a question he answered on his show. Question was, does 1 thousandths make a difference? I believe these where F class guys. There was discussion on that and I remember it was said that it could maybe if it t was on the ragged edge of a node maybe.
I originally asked about the .020 jump senecio because I had a decision to make on a barrel.
I guess if what I got don't work I could always rechamber. I guess it's a gamble either way .
Thanks for all the responses!!!!