ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....UPDATE Pg 2

[FN in MT]

Recently built a 6.5x47 L. Defiance action, HART barrel, PTG reamer, by a competent Smith.

Part of the reason I went with the Lapua is I read all sorts of posts on how easy it was to make shoot, single digit ES readings, etc, etc.

Just started, but so far with H-4350 and then VARGET with 136 Lapua Scenar-L and 130 VLD Bergers my extreme spreads and 100 yd groups have been less than spectacular.

I'm using Lapua brass. All trimmed to the same length, Whidden FL die set with a .288" redding neck bushing, cci450 primers, with VLD's seated .005" to .010" into the lands. I tried the Lapua Scenar 136's .020" off then in to the lands .005". Groups hovered around .6" to .9" for four shots at 100.

Then tried the 130 VLD's seated in as well. Accuracy has been .4" to .6" to as bad as 1" at 100 yds. I seem to get 2 or 3 touching or close, then a 4th rd that opens the group up. The 130 Bergers certainly appear to group better than the Scenars.

My extreme velocity spreads have been as high as 55 fps. I only had two load that were less than 30 fps, they were 16 and 19 fps but didn't shoot very well groups.

My loaded rds measure .290" at the neck, hence the .288" bushing. Should I go to a .287" or .289" bushing? When I seat bullets (Whidden micrometer seater) they all seem to seat smoothly and with the same push on the loader handle.

The CCI 450 primers are supposed to be THE combination for this cartridge. Switch to a BR-4 or RP Benchrest primer, or standard primer?

I KNOW there could be a hundred causes from my technique at the bench being lousy, to bad bedding as well as 98 other causes. That said....Any ideas spring to mind those of you with 6.5x47 Lapaua experience?

FN in MT

 

[Jason Boersma]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

I use H4350 and Br4 primers, try seating each bullet farther into the lands as far as .020 in. If that doesn't improve it then you can try a tighter neck bushing, I also use a .288 bushing.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

What is the chamber neck diameter?

 

[ShootDots]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

It has been my experience that BOTH 6.5's and 7mm's like a bit more neck expansion than a 6mm does. My 6.5 x 47 has a .292 neck. I turn my brass down so that when I use a .286 bushing, it loads to .288. That gives me 4K of expansion in the neck area. I also found that RL-15, along with CCI 450 primers will give you excellent accuracy and L-O-W e.s.'s.. Presently, I shoot 123SMK's with 38.0grs of RL-15. It is VERY accurate and my e.s.'s are less than 12 f.p.s... I finally got my hands on some Berger 130's and will try those with RL-15 and IF I COULD get my hands on some N150, I would try that too. I used N550 on my last 6.5 x 47 with GREAT results, however, it ate my throat up like candy! BUT I believe the trick to accuracy and e.s.'s in the '47 is 4+k neck clearance..

 

[FN in MT]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Neck diameter..... measured with a micrometer is .294" .

Appreciate the replies Gentleman.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

How are you weighing powder?

 

[FN in MT]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Weighing powder with a 5-0-5 RCBS scale, then checking on an older RCBS digital. NOT the best set up. I know the Digital can go .1 grain either way on a whim. I have a Gem Pro ordered.

I have tied to be as exact as possible , keeping my routine consistent. Drop a charge in the pan. Then add the few tenths needed with an Omega trickler. I blow on the pan gently to bottom it out, then let it settle and go from there. I'm looking forward to being able to check with the Gem Pro.

FN in MT

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Which older RCBS digital do you have? I have one made by ohaus. It is dependable, consistent, and reliable. I've been getting the Dasher to go 10 fps or less ES on the last two outings.

I can throw you a few technique ideas on getting the most out of a dinosaur.

 

[krktractor]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

I started out using cci450 and they shoot 1/4 to 1/3 moa at 400. never tried br4 until I ran out of the other. loaded 10-20 up with same powder charge and shot a 2 groups at 1/2 inch. haven't checked the es or sd but don't care I'm assuming from the groups it's must be pretty good. my es was always good with the cci450 sd was around 11 so next time I'm going to chrono those loads and recheck my sd. my neck clearence is .003 I found it shot better than when I had minimum clearence I neck trimmed another .001 and I got a good carbon showing ony neck. my smith said that that's they way it should be. I had it too tight before

 

[hogpatrol]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Bad barrel. If my new ones don't shoot with established loads the first time out, it's on to another barrel. YMMV. Hog

 

[savagedasher]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

First thing I would try is to change the Brass.
I did a 6 + 47 had the same results along with 1/2 vertical and 50 'S D Tried ever primer made with powder neck tension seat depth. Had to be the barrel. Wrong again made it a 6mm Dasher and everything went away. Checking my notes I found the hotter primers I used the less of a problem I had. My home made Remington brass shot around .250. '
First thing I would do is increase the primer hole size in a few pieces of brass. See if that helps the problem. Larry

 

[Beau]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Has that primer lot# ever given you good results? If not, try a different lot# or type/brand.

 

[gotcha]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

I found that mine shot best w/ .002" neck tension. Never really got acceptable accuracy results 'til I switched primers and magically the fliers went away. Best groups came at .007" jam and F/L re-sized. I used a LCD then F/L sized when necessary w/ body die. It works fine on other cartridges but my 6.5X47L prefers F/L re-size W/ Forster standard die. Can't really explain why? Just works best for me ...... Haven't tried using the body die at each reload yet. Good groups w/ Berger 123's & excellent groups w/ Scenar 123's. Tried Varget & 4350. RL-15 shot better for me. (sd = 10 to 15fps)

 

[Erik Cortina]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Another question: What type of chronograph are you using?

 

[terryperkins]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Just thinking...is the powder charge too light?

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

FN in MT, dont worry you will get the accuracy you want but it may take a little development. I use a no neck turn chamber with a 0.294" neck, (Lapua brass) and a long 0.173" throat for the 140 grain bullets. I use the same 0.288 bush as you for lapua brass and Berger 140s or 139gr Scenar projectiles. I seat both of these projectiles 0.010" - 0.015" into the lands just like you are doing. I also use the CCI 450 primers and 37.5gr of Varget gives me a velocity of 2865 fps. I have run hotter loads out to 2900+ fps but the accuracy comes in for me with a 32" 5R barrel at 2865 so thats where I run it.

Provided you have a good barrel I would suggest you start load development using Erik's method or shooting groups with different load increments at 100 yards. I tend to think you have most things pretty right but its time to try varying the powder charge. The charge I use works for me and delivers one hole, 5 shot groups at 100 yards. You should be able to achieve the same result but start low and work up to max loads. The 139gr scenars and 140gr Vlds work well seated jammed just as you are doing so I suspect its some fine tuning with the powder charge thats required.

Ian

 

[FN in MT]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Lots of good ideas. A few replies...

Oehler 35P set up properly. I rechecked all that last Range session.

I think my powder charges should be high enough. With the 136 Lapuas I was from 38.0 of H-4350 which gave me 2685, to 40.0 which gave me 2867 fps.
Also tried VARGET with 130 Berger VLD's, 37.5 gave me 2910-2940 depending on seating depth.

This batch of CCI450's are brand new. Not a primer I have used in the past....So no other data on them to share.

Fn in MT

 

[The6.5Lapua]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Just thinking...is the powder charge too light?

I was wondering the same thing. Too light a charge would give poor groups.

 

[The6.5Lapua]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Lots of good ideas. A few replies...

Oehler 35P set up properly. I rechecked all that last Range session.

I think my powder charges should be high enough. With the 136 Lapuas I was from 38.0 of H-4350 which gave me 2685, to 40.0 which gave me 2867 fps.
Also tried VARGET with 130 Berger VLD's, 37.5 gave me 2910-2940 depending on seating depth.

This batch of CCI450's are brand new. Not a primer I have used in the past....So no other data on them to share.

Fn in MT

I use 37 to 37.5 of varget for 130s getting about 2900 from a 26" shilen select.

I use mostly 140 vld's with h4350 at 39.0 and get 2780. My es on a 10 shot was 7

Have you tried n150? I had a good ladder with 136s

Good luck I know you will get where you want to be.

 

[FN in MT]

Re: ES is 35-55 fps, 6.5x47 Lapua....HELP!

Weather permitting I'll post some range results within the next few days...if possible.


Appreciate the help.

FN in MT