Eliminate Savage barrel nut?

[TRECustom]

I was asked this evening if you could set a barrel up for a Savage without the barrel nut. I have never took a Savage apart, but I can't see why you couldn't set one up like a Remington 700. Has anyone done this or is there some reason that it shouldn't be done? The way it was described to me is that the recoil lug had a square key punched through it that matched up with a slot machined in the face of the receiver to line it up and prevent rotation. Seems like you could just shoulder a barrel and set the tenon length and headspace the chamber without the nut, but I can't advise somebody about something that I've never done, or that I don't know about.

Thanks, Tom

 

[Nefariousd]

I have a buddy that has his done "700 style" by Lester Bruno, Works great!

But he does lament having done it. The Savage "thing" for a lot of folks is being able to switch calibers at the drop of a hat. Which isn't necessarily impossible if the barrel is installed without the nut it just means a bit more work and a lot more finesse to put the nut-less barrel back just right.

I can't say it is a bad Idea because there is nothing really wrong with doing it that way. I wouldn't do it and forfeit the thing that got me into Savages in the first place and I really don't think there's anything to gain by leaving the nut off, people do VERY well with the barrel nut still there.

 

[Steve Blair]

Which isn't necessarily impossible if the barrel is installed without the nut it just means a bit more work and a lot more finesse to put the nut-less barrel back just right.

It is actually easier to remove and install a receiver-headspaced barrel than one with a nut. Since the barrel shoulder and the receiver face determine the headspace; there is no need for a headspace gauge, just spin the barrel into place and tighten it. A barrel vise and receiver wrench are needed for fitted barrels and a Savage nut wrench and headspace "GO" gauge are also needed for barrels with nuts.

I have two Savage 12F rifles and the nut advantage is using pre-machined barrels and swapping barrels between rifles. My safes are full of rifles with fitted barrels, too. Both work well.

 

[Nefariousd]

It is actually easier to remove and install a receiver-headspaced barrel than one with a nut. Since the barrel shoulder and the receiver face determine the headspace; there is no need for a headspace gauge, just spin the barrel into place and tighten it.

I agree up and to the point that there is some sort of index to ensure repeatability. That is how tight is tight.

TRECustom: There is some information about this on the Savage Shooters forum.

 

[Rustystud]

Savage barrel nut?

Savage does not use the barrel nut for the purpose of making their rifles switch barrel guns for their customers.

Savage uses the barrel nut to make engineering and manufacturing less expensive.

Even a monkey can headspace a barrel with a barrel nut.

I have been told with good authority that Savage employees women who install their barrels to the actions. Having removed litterally thousands of Savage factory barrels I have come to the conclusion those women must be female gorillas. Savage installs their barrels with the intention that they are not coming off without great effort.

Nat Lambeth

 

[DOGCAPPER]

The barrel nut is on to compensate for sloppy machine work, rampant on Savage.. esp in the trigger.
LT

 

[shortgrass]

Re: Savage barrel nut?

Savage does not use the barrel nut for the purpose of making their rifles switch barrel guns for their customers.

Savage uses the barrel nut to make engineering and manufacturing less expensive.

Even a monkey can headspace a barrel with a barrel nut.

I have been told with good authority that Savage employees women who install their barrels to the actions. Having removed litterally thousands of Savage factory barrels I have come to the conclusion those women must be female gorillas. Savage installs their barrels with the intention that they are not coming off without great effort.

Nat Lambeth

Why Nat, that's sacrilegous!!! Trouble is I agreewith you. Since the AR-15 rush many think guns should come in "kit" form. Nefariousd, every time a threaded set-up is torqued the threads stretch a little bit. Done enough times one could be reducing headspace. We hear alot about exessive headspace and that it can creat dangerous conditions but not much about not having enough headspace. If a firearm doesn't have enough headspace it means the chamber isn't deep enough. In that case, when a cartridge would be chambered the chamber itself might crimp the case mouth into the bullet creating dangerously high pressures.. I won't install a barrel without checking headspace with gages. Those gages are cheap for the job they do.

 

[Steve Blair]

I agree up and to the point that there is some sort of index to ensure repeatability. That is how tight is tight.

I usually tighten to 40 lb/ft. I have headspace gauge sets for every cartridge I shoot, but have found no change after many removals and installations. Although I do not do it, I have witnessed BR shooters spinning barrels hand tight and shooting them to no ill effects.

 

[TRECustom]

Thanks to all for the replies. I passed the info on.

Nat, the guy that asked the question had pulled the barrel last night and when I called him this morning, he cracked up about the "gorilla women" remark. He said his barrel vise couldn't hold the barrel to break the nut loose. He had to finally clamp the barrel in his heavy 5" vise and use the nut wrench like a hammer wrench to get the nut to break loose.

What prompted him to ask about using a Rem setup was that after getting it loose, he screwed it back in and headspaced it with the nut loose. When he tightened the nut by hand, it pulled the barrel back a thou or so, lengthening the headspace. Seemed pretty inexact to both of us, so we both wondered about using the Rem setup. Based on the replies, that is what he will do.

Thanks again to all.

Tom

 

[Rustystud]

I have seen many Savage Barrel nuts warped or cracked from over tightening.

I also have seen many Savage barrels scarred up from slipping in the vice.

If one does not have the right tools don't just get a bigger hammer.

Nat Lambeth

 

[Robert]

I have seen many Savage Barrel nuts warped or cracked from over tightening.

I also have seen many Savage barrels scarred up from slipping in the vice.

If one does not have the right tools don't just get a bigger hammer.

Nat Lambeth

Nat,

At 20tpi, those barrels should require 25% less trque than a 16tpi of similar diameter. Over tightening them can just give the results you notice, with the added possibility of galling the screw/action contact surface.
R.G.C

 

[Rustystud]

All barrels should have a good coat of high temp molly grease or anti seize Chrome molly or stainless. Be sure to do the shoulder too. It makes life so much easier.
Nat Lambeth

 

[nhm16]

One of the prone shooters at my club has two nut less Savages done by Larry Racine and they shoot very well.

With respect to the barrel nut and headspace, Fred Moreo (Sharpshooter Supply) indicated over on savageshooters.com that tightening the barrel nut will increase the headspace by 0.002", but that was fine since he recommended that much over minimum headspace. He also said you can use a plastigage to determine the exact amount.

 

[BoydAllen]

Savage uses a "swing gauge", that is .002 shorter than a Go Gauge to headspace their barrels, at the factory. Given that they undoubtedly screw the barrel down till the gauge touches, and then tighten the nut, I find the stretch figure of .002 interesting. One should cancel out the other.

As far as nut vs. shoulder on barrel goes, my experience with my PPC is that no index mark is needed, at least with everything square and correct. Given that this is the case, it will always be easier to accurately replace a barrel with an integral shoulder, once it is properly fitted to a particular action. The advantage of the nut is that one can headspace a barrel without a lathe. That is the only advantage for a shooter, unless one plans on using it on more than one action.

 

[juliomorris]

I use a FL resized case to head space against. then I double check it with Go/no-go gages. I have the cases set aside and fill them with epoxy so that way I always use the same cases. I agree on the women that tighten the barrel nuts, they must all bench press over 300.

 

[Steve Blair]

I have not measured it but the .002" nut tension headspace increase is likely. Both my Viper 6BR barrels are chambered identically at .002 over min. I use a GO gauge to set the Savage 6BR, turning the barrel to contact the gauge and then tightening the nut to 40 lb/ft. Both the Savage and the Stiller use the same die setting for FL sizing and seem to have the same headspace.