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Effects of Barrel Fluting on Accuracy

There is another active thread going with the subject "Effects of Barrel Fluting on Harmonics" which has a lot of replies and some good discussion going. I wanted to change the subject slightly but did not want to hijack the thread so I am starting a similar one here. I did not want to be considered one of the forum bullies. I recently built an AR match rifle in 223 with a scope to shoot mid range conventional (sling) prone matches with. The gun turned out a little heavy for me, when I was younger the weight was an asset but now as a grand senior it has its limits. I was looking for a way to take some of the weight out of the gun and decided to buy a fluted barrel and was interested in the effects of fluting on accuracy so I did some research. I was not trying to improve accuracy but looking for a way to reduce weight without a negative effect on accuracy. The references that I found were not very helpful, some claimed improvement in accuracy and some claimed otherwise. I went ahead with trying the fluted barrel. I now have a statistically significant number of matches with a non fluted barrel which I replaced with a fluted barrel and have started shooting matches with the fluted barrel on the same gun with the same ammo, etc. By the time I shoot out the second barrel I will have enough data to compare but so far I do not see any difference in accuracy.
 
Not sure how "scientific " the result is going to be as it's a different barrel. Not that it really matters for our game T, as we have a 2 moa target so cleaning it should be easy, right?
 
FatBoy said:
Not sure how "scientific " the result is going to be as it's a different barrel. Not that it really matters for our game T, as we have a 2 moa target so cleaning it should be easy, right?
" Just because we can not know everything does not mean we can not know anything".
 
I also think your comparing apples to oranges . Too many variables , just in the barrels ,even if made by same manuf , same day , same operator .
Bore diam , land ,groove depth and ratio . How accurate the twist is , crown , muzzle , brake if applicable .google the Prec Mag Articles , commercially available fluting is gun candy coating . It will not reduce weight noticeably .
 
Ggmac said:
I also think your comparing apples to oranges . Too many variables , just in the barrels ,even if made by same manuf , same day , same operator .
Bore diam , land ,groove depth and ratio . How accurate the twist is , crown , muzzle , brake if applicable .google the Prec Mag Articles , commercially available fluting is gun candy coating . It will not reduce weight noticeably .
I was trying to get a 14 pound rifle down in weight by a pound or more so a reduction of about a half of a pound by fluting is significant toward that goal. By the time I shoot out the fluted barrel I will have enough data to make a statically comparison to a confidence level that will be good enough for me to know if I am giving up anything significant in accuracy.
 
Ggmac said:
I also think your comparing apples to oranges . Too many variables , just in the barrels ,even if made by same manuf , same day , same operator .
Bore diam , land ,groove depth and ratio . How accurate the twist is , crown , muzzle , brake if applicable .google the Prec Mag Articles , commercially available fluting is gun candy coating . It will not reduce weight noticeably .
More like comparing a non fluted apple to a fluted apple.
 
Yes . An apple with worm holes would be less weight than the same apple before the worm got to it but not the same weight as other apples .
 
T-REX said:
Ggmac said:
I also think your comparing apples to oranges . Too many variables , just in the barrels ,even if made by same manuf , same day , same operator .
Bore diam , land ,groove depth and ratio . How accurate the twist is , crown , muzzle , brake if applicable .google the Prec Mag Articles , commercially available fluting is gun candy coating . It will not reduce weight noticeably .
I was trying to get a 14 pound rifle down in weight by a pound or more so a reduction of about a half of a pound by fluting is significant toward that goal. By the time I shoot out the fluted barrel I will have enough data to make a statically comparison to a confidence level that will be good enough for me to know if I am giving up anything significant in accuracy.

we can discuss this the next time we're on the range, but I am curious how you are going to dismiss the introduction of "additional comfort ", as we both know fatigue plays a huge part in comfort and thus overall score.

Do I think you will shoot better? Maybe. But how much will it have to do with comfort? Range Conditions? Improvement of personal skill. (i.e. you break the shot 2 seconds after the target is up instead of your average if 4 seconds).
 
I believe the logic is if I can save weight and not notice a reduction in score then flutist will have done no harm, and helped save weight.
Seth
 
litshoot said:
I believe the logic is if I can save weight and not notice a reduction in score then flutist will have done no harm, and helped save weight.
Seth
Thanks. If you go back to my original post that is exactly what I was thinking. My other options were using a different barrel contour or a shorter barrel or both. I chose fluting but did not know if that is the best solution and apparently no one else knows either.
 
Ggmac said:
Yes . An apple with worm holes would be less weight than the same apple before the worm got to it but not the same weight as other apples .
If the worm is still in the apple, when weighed, there should be no theoretical loss in weight. The result of the experiment will answer one question: Can you get "equal accuracy" out of that fluted barrel?, as Seth and others suggest. If you don't , it could just be because it was made by Dave, on a thursday, after the big game night.
 
I'm curious too. I'm a neophyte in the game so forgive me if this is comedic.

Is it possible to shoot a barrel in, once you have consistent groups and fouling say 500 rounds, then have the barrel fluted?

Or does the process of fluting require something inside the barrel that could possibly affect the lands grooves fouling etc...

I'd also like to know the differences in temperature retention and dissipation before and after.
 
Boltpup said:
I'm curious too. I'm a neophyte in the game so forgive me if this is comedic.

Is it possible to shoot a barrel in, once you have consistent groups and fouling say 500 rounds, then have the barrel fluted?

Or does the process of fluting require something inside the barrel that could possibly affect the lands grooves fouling etc...

I'd also like to know the differences in temperature retention and dissipation before and after.
That would be an interesting experiment, shoot a non fluted barrel enough to define its accuracy and then have it fluted to see if things change for better or worse. I was only looking for weight reduction and hoping that would result in no loss of accuracy and not expecting to get an improvement in accuracy. But the first results are favorable and the new fluted barrel is at least as accurate as the old non fluted barrel. As others have pointed out I can not know for sure but will have a higher confidence level with more data. As Chris pointed out, there could be an improvement in scores just because the lighter barrel is "more comfortable" to shoot. Determining the heat transfer effect, positive or negative, would be much more difficult. I was only looking for first order effects since I am shooting on the "big" conventional target, folks shooting the more difficult F Class target can take advantage of the second order improvements.
 
If all the rifles that I have, both fluted and non. I don't see any weight benefit that I can notice. I don't think, unless you have a bull barreled AR, that you will notice the ounce or two off the weapon? All my rifles are heavy. All are hunting rifles but my 260 and its 18lbs.
 
nastynatesfish said:
If all the rifles that I have, both fluted and non. I don't see any weight benefit that I can notice. I don't think, unless you have a bull barreled AR, that you will notice the ounce or two off the weapon? All my rifles are heavy. All are hunting rifles but my 260 and its 18lbs.
I understand exactly what you are saying but go back to my original post and notice why I am doing this, it is all about age and finding a way to stay in the game. If I were your age and still as strong as I was then I would think the same as you are saying, the heavier the better so what is the problem. But I am now old and not as strong as I once was and I am looking for ways to keep me in the game. Rifle weight is one of those things, there are others. A few ounces does not seem like much to you but a few ounces here and a few there and it is feasible to drop a pound or two and that makes a lot of difference especially if it improves balance. But for you, just file this away for now, you may want to come back to it in forty years. Take care and best regards.
 
T-REX said:
Boltpup said:
I'm curious too. I'm a neophyte in the game so forgive me if this is comedic.

Is it possible to shoot a barrel in, once you have consistent groups and fouling say 500 rounds, then have the barrel fluted?

Or does the process of fluting require something inside the barrel that could possibly affect the lands grooves fouling etc...

I'd also like to know the differences in temperature retention and dissipation before and after.
That would be an interesting experiment, shoot a non fluted barrel enough to define its accuracy and then have it fluted to see if things change for better or worse. I was only looking for weight reduction and hoping that would result in no loss of accuracy and not expecting to get an improvement in accuracy. But the first results are favorable and the new fluted barrel is at least as accurate as the old non fluted barrel. As others have pointed out I can not know for sure but will have a higher confidence level with more data. As Chris pointed out, there could be an improvement in scores just because the lighter barrel is "more comfortable" to shoot. Determining the heat transfer effect, positive or negative, would be much more difficult. I was only looking for first order effects since I am shooting on the "big" conventional target, folks shooting the more difficult F Class target can take advantage of the second order improvements.

Aha, I misunderstood! I'll be following the thread to read your results.
 
I understand that sir. I built a light weight rig for my dad to carry around. I guess what I was getting to is how much weight will you save off a 20" hbar or lightweight upper through fluting in comparison to a high quality lighter weight barrel and carbon fiber? My rifles have pretty deep fluting but they are all also MTU contour at least
My 18 pounder 260
 
As T-REX stated shooting prone. The way I shoot I might not be able to notice a difference off the bench in fluted or not. I do a little shooting setting and standing. The best thing for the OP [ or anyone ] can do is go to the fitness center 2 or 3 times a week to fight old age.
Do they flute a barrel and turn the OD before it's bored ?

my 2 cents. :)

Link
 
nastynatesfish said:
I understand that sir. I built a light weight rig for my dad to carry around. I guess what I was getting to is how much weight will you save off a 20" hbar or lightweight upper through fluting in comparison to a high quality lighter weight barrel and carbon fiber? My rifles have pretty deep fluting but they are all also MTU contour at least
My 18 pounder 260
The rifle I am working with is an AR match rifle with a 26 inch barrel and the fluted one weighs about half a pound less than the non fluted barrel. I also have a 20 inch upper that weighs about one pound less than the 26 inch upper and it shoots very well on the "big" conventional 600 yard target. The stock is fully adjustable so I have developed a high prone position with a short stock to move the CG aft and that seems to help. It may be that a different barrel contour would be better than fluting but I have not tried that.
 

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