Effect of a supressor on accuracy, opinions needed

[AckleymanII]

with the cans selling like wild fire, what is your opinion of how an can would effect accuracy. Lets assume that you have a custom rifle in the hands of an experienced shooter, with a very high quality scope. I am a doubting Thomas in the least. Various companies have some fantastic claims.

You are adding weight and length to a rifle barrel and this has to change harmonics, pot luck on accuracy? We will assume that the threads are good and the shoulders on barrel and can are square.

Issues come up for super accurate varmint and deer rifles along with competitive rifles.

So, if your rifle is shooting aggs in the 2's, how would you expect a change?

I am wondering if anyone has ever documented a before and after.

 

[Jose_Luis_G]

It has always been said that supressors go against accuracy. Of course, it depends of what you intend to shoot at.
If it is for hunting, I believe that the animal won't raise any complain if your hit is a bit high, low, left or right. It will die anyway as it is not a great difference.
For target shooting, I don't see the need of it.
All in all, you will find a variation in the point of impact and size of the group.
The supressor will take you, for sure, to rework the present reloading data (if it is now good enough for you).

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

I have found that my suppressor has help my accuracy. My rifles that are threated for my suppressors are all factory rifles, so "accuracy" is subjective. POI changes are not huge. My 308 actually has a .5" swing in POI at 100 yards. Groups are approx. 1/2 MOA with the can, and approx. 3/4 moa without. But like I said... these are all factory rifles.

 

[savagedasher]

RAS makes a tuner that works with suppressor Larry

 

[maxscm]

All My Suppressors are Direct thread and help accuracy a tick.( A 7.62 Sandstorm Gemtech and a 5.56 AWC Raider and a .308 Omega and a 22LR Sparrow).
Yes you'll get POI shift with any added muzzle device. I have no experience with the Quick Detach Suppressors but I believe a Direct thread would be better for your use. Go ahead and take the plunge AkleymanII, It will be just like your first Custom Rifle, then you'll need another and another, etc.......

 

[Geno C]

I actually have done a before and after test just like you are asking. I bought a 6brx krieger HV off a guy on here. It was threaded for a Remington 700 with a factory lug. I spun it on an untrued action with a factory lug and put it in an XLR evolution chassis. While forming brass it showed great potential. Many sub 1/4 MOA groups and average about .26 Moa for the first 200 rounds through the barrel.

I dropped it off with Lee Gardner with a bunch of other barrels to get threaded. Lee is very particular that everything he does is as perfect as possible. The threaded to the spec that Thunderbeast requires and the shoulders and crowns are square. I doubt the could get any better than he did on all of the barrels I had him do.

I've since tested this barrel with 3 different suppressors; Tbac 30p1, 30ps and a YHM Phantom qd. The POI shift with the Tbac cans was very minimal and the YHM was more but perfectly repeatable even with the qd mount. No can required me to rework the load to achieve the same group sizes I had been seeing before the thread job. 1" groups at 400 on calm days.

I did this barrel like this for this exact reason. There were a couple guys I shoot with that didn't believe me that my suppressors had no I'll affects on accuracy. I have no more nay sayers in my groups of shooting friends after this rifle.

I have a Sako 75 varmint in 223 that shoots Fiocchi 50gr vmax ammo into .3s very routinely. Lee also threaded this barrel after I have put close to 1500 rounds of this ammo through it. He left the crown untouched so it is the exact same length as before. With my 30ps it opened up to .4-.5moa. With the 30p1 and Phantom qd, it is closer to .25 now. The weight of the 2 larger fans have actually tuned the factory ammo to shoot tighter than before.

A good thread job and quality can will possibly change harmonics but I don't think it will make a good shooting barrel shoot worse, especially if you can change your load a tiny bit the account for the tuner hanging off the end of your barrel now.

 

[TimS]

I actually have done a before and after test just like you are asking. I bought a 6brx krieger HV off a guy on here. It was threaded for a Remington 700 with a factory lug. I spun it on an untrued action with a factory lug and put it in an XLR evolution chassis. While forming brass it showed great potential. Many sub 1/4 MOA groups and average about .26 Moa for the first 200 rounds through the barrel.

I dropped it off with Lee Gardner with a bunch of other barrels to get threaded. Lee is very particular that everything he does is as perfect as possible. The threaded to the spec that Thunderbeast requires and the shoulders and crowns are square. I doubt the could get any better than he did on all of the barrels I had him do.

I've since tested this barrel with 3 different suppressors; Tbac 30p1, 30ps and a YHM Phantom qd. The POI shift with the Tbac cans was very minimal and the YHM was more but perfectly repeatable even with the qd mount. No can required me to rework the load to achieve the same group sizes I had been seeing before the thread job. 1" groups at 400 on calm days.

I did this barrel like this for this exact reason. There were a couple guys I shoot with that didn't believe me that my suppressors had no I'll affects on accuracy. I have no more nay sayers in my groups of shooting friends after this rifle.

I have a Sako 75 varmint in 223 that shoots Fiocchi 50gr vmax ammo into .3s very routinely. Lee also threaded this barrel after I have put close to 1500 rounds of this ammo through it. He left the crown untouched so it is the exact same length as before. With my 30ps it opened up to .4-.5moa. With the 30p1 and Phantom qd, it is closer to .25 now. The weight of the 2 larger fans have actually tuned the factory ammo to shoot tighter than before.

A good thread job and quality can will possibly change harmonics but I don't think it will make a good shooting barrel shoot worse, especially if you can change your load a tiny bit the account for the tuner hanging off the end of your barrel now.

 

[Zero333]

High quality suppressors will not affect a rifles precision, and in some cases may help due to transitional ballistics when the bullet leaves the muzzle, the gasses around the base of the bullet are not as strong and turbulent.

The "average" suppressor can hurt accuracy. I remember decades ago suppressors were known for hurting precision. But today's high quality suppressors are made on very capable machines and with better materials compared to before.

 

[TimS]

I have an AAC M4 2000 that I have used on several rifles. My stock Colt Hbar was 1/2 MOA. My 6940 would gain up to 170 fps with the suppressor depending on ammo. Group were not as I wanted so I had CLE rebarel it with a flutted Krieger, now it's 1/2 MOA or better. Interesting, I now only see a 25-40 fps difference. That is more likely due to the adjustable gas block from CLE.

I did use this suppressor on .204 Ruger upper CLE made for me with 24" Krieger and saw no change in velocity and it would shoot .25 with or w/o can.

I use an AAC Aviator on a custom 10-22 and can shoot dimes at 50yds with CCI standard velocity ammo.

 

[Twitchy]

I shoot suppressed 98%+ of the time. On one of rifles, the groups are noticeably reduced. Most groups on other rifles are only slightly improved. I have yet to have one shoot worse with it on.

Only once have I had to rework a load to reduce velocity in order to keep it accurate.

 

[SDDasher]

Tikka 260AI hunting rifle @ 300 yds. Suppressor is a Dixie Precision Rifle's .30 cal. Very accurate. Better with the can on rather than off.

 

[Scott Harris]

a good quality can with a tight-fitting direct thread mount has not hurt accuracy at all on my barrels....even with 20+ shot f class strings

 

[shoot4fun]

with the cans selling like wild fire, what is your opinion of how an can would effect accuracy. Lets assume that you have a custom rifle in the hands of an experienced shooter, with a very high quality scope. I am a doubting Thomas in the least. Various companies have some fantastic claims.

You are adding weight and length to a rifle barrel and this has to change harmonics, pot luck on accuracy? We will assume that the threads are good and the shoulders on barrel and can are square.

Issues come up for super accurate varmint and deer rifles along with competitive rifles.

So, if your rifle is shooting aggs in the 2's, how would you expect a change?

I am wondering if anyone has ever documented a before and after.

OK, so you have two BAT actions in two separate stocks and only one barrel. That barrel shoots .1s on the first BAT; will it shoot .1s on the other? Well, you don't know until you try it do you?
Same with suppressors. Sometimes you just don't know what will happen. I've seen them tighten up groups and I've seen them open up groups. My AIAX 308 shoots much better, mainly because the suppressor helps tame the recoil of those 185 Hybrids at 2770 FPS. My R700 AAC-SD in 308 shoots better (way better) and the cold-bore shot is also absolutely repeatable day after day, week after week. My TCA Precision Hunter in 6.5CM shoots tiny groups without the can but big ones with it. Thing is, the barrel is fluted but smaller diameter and the tune was affected greatly. I bet I could retune the load and be perfectly happy with the results there. Just haven't done it. I seriously doubt they will ever make suppressors legal for F-Class or Benchrest games but go to a precision "steel-bangin'" match and you'll see a pot full of them shooting small plates at long distances.

 

[CaptainMal]

Just tune with it on. No big deal.

 

[Shynloco]

Just tune with it on. No big deal.

IMHO, CaptainMal hit the nail on the head! For a very long time, I was under the impression that Suppressors would negatively affect (precision) accuracy. The reason I felt that way was because of my readings and experiences using a quality Tuner. In short, Tuners affect the harmonics of any barrel and you have the ability to adjust the Tuner to obtain optimum harmonics IN A SPECIFIC RIFLE BARREL. Add a Suppressor, and there was no adjustment available, except as CaptainMal points out, adjusting your load to your particular rifle. Also with Suppressors, one size fits all, but the affects on accuracy vary. I thought that there was REALLY no way to control that and because it was a hit and miss proposition, I never put a Suppressor on any of my Benchrest Rifles (which is all I shoot anymore).

Enter JP Precision and their "Supermatch" barrels that come with a Suppressor (when ordered) that is carefully mounted (screwed on and barrel turned at the connection point). Now it is well known that "Gas Guns" cannot compete with bolt guns in terms of accuracy. But after having bought a custom built STTAR15 and seeing the 5 shot groups it shot at 100, 200, 300 and 600yds, (shot by a long time expert competitive shooter) and my experiences in shooting mine at 100 yds, I now have a new, much more positive opinion of Suppressors. And that is that I no longer believe they adversely affect accuracy when one adopts CaptainMal's recommendation. In short, the barrel might not be as easy to tune, but the load it shoots can be tuned and therefore that previously thought adverse affect doesn't necessarily exist when using a quality tuner and the person doing the work knows what he's doing. Just my .02 worth.

Alex

 

[Geno C]

I don't know anyone that I've talked into getting a suppressor that would rather shoot without now. The only rifles I have now that aren't threaded for a can are old collectors pieces and a 358win. I still might thread that one and have a custom can built or do it myself

 

[savagedasher]

Ours have to Have a serial number like guns. And a sign to the owner .
Weight is a big factor . So each take a different tune .
In f class they arent allowed .
We have a tuner that can be adapted between the barrel and the can so far it is looking good .
Here in Florida they are legal for hunting but to get approved is like getting a class 3 firearms license . Larry

 

[waldo1979]

There have been significant advances in suppressor design. 10 years ago the market leader was someone like AAC with their SDN line. Today, a SilencerCo harvester or Omega will shoot tighter with minimal poi shift. This is due to better baffle design and better mounts.

 

[Rtheurer]

It has always been said that supressors go against accuracy. Of course, it depends of what you intend to shoot at.
If it is for hunting, I believe that the animal won't raise any complain if your hit is a bit high, low, left or right. It will die anyway as it is not a great difference.
For target shooting, I don't see the need of it.
All in all, you will find a variation in the point of impact and size of the group.
The supressor will take you, for sure, to rework the present reloading data (if it is now good enough for you).

Looking like the other ten posts go against this thought.

 

[Keith Kilby]

I'll make it 11...
I have a TBAC 30P1 that I use on several different rifles from 6mm up to 30. I find no detriment to accuracy at all and my 6 Creedmoor shoots slightly smaller gps with the can. My POI shift is less than my NF scope with quarter minute clicks can adjust to. I have shot this same can up to 300 Win Mag and not only was the noise reduced significantly, the recoil was reduced the same amount as a good muzzle brake. Everything but my F-class rifles get threaded now. I have no experience with anything but direct mount cans so can't debate the diff with a QD/brake mount.