DPMS accuracy improvements.

[JAD1967]

I own a DPMS LR .308 with heavy stainless steal 24"barrel. The rifle is stock. What upgrades can I do to get the most accuracy out of this weapon? Would like to get into competition shooting.

 

[dcali]

Barrel and trigger. But first, what sort of competition?

 

[JAD1967]

Barrel and trigger. But first, what sort of competition?

Long Range. Want to try it at 1,000 yards.

 

[mac86951]

Welcome to the forum. I hope you're an accuracy minded shooter and know that even though I have an opinion and recommendations; these are really just suggestions for more of your own research. There is NOT one thing to do that makes your DPMS perfect. You'll have to figure out what you think is needed and learn as you go.

I along with many others on this site have really enjoyed our DPMS parts and rifles, and honestly; I'm very impressed with what I can do given the cost. Please excuse my questions, but I think answers will help others including myself in assembling valid and useful responses.

1. I see you want to shoot 1000y. What are your 1000 goals? Your current rifle will do 1000 easily. PRS, F-Class, High-power, SnG, Gongs?

A time tested accuracy standard for rifles is 1MOA and there are many many many threads on a 1/4MOA at 100y rifle not being 1MOA at 1000y. Truth is, a 1MOA rifle could be a winner in just about any 1000 competition with an amazing shooter behind it (bob lee swagger?!?)

The rest of us at 1000y have our equipment performing at a level to help us compensate for mistakes in wind reading, shooting fundamentals, etc...

2. My experience with LR-308s comes from three DPMS uppers in specific. One is the LR-308 with DPMS barrel 24". Second is a LR-6.5 DPMS upper. Third is a custom built, custom chambered in M852 Match 308. Some of these are similar, but your rifle WILL be different (somewhere between small slightly, to Ford vs. Chevy).

I'm going to make the assumption that you want 1MOA at 1000y or better. I'm going to make the assumption that your budget is minimal and you'd rather not toss dollars away at band-aids that get pitched later.

#1, Accurate rifle set-up for LR-308. (do you have the tools to be a consistent shooter). Practice doesn't make perfect; Perfect practice makes perfect. Only upgrade from a stock LR is a good trigger. Depending on your competition rules, different triggers are recommended for pull weights. Expect $250 to get you a great trigger, and change if you grab a sale. Brand bias: I've never gone wrong with Gieselle; I've been beaten by shooters with other triggers; it wasn't my triggers fault, just the loose nut driving it.

#2, Rifle Set-up. How are you shooting at 1k yards. Good rest and bag, but only if you are using EGW bag riders (or similar); or have a bag-riding buttstock. Bipods and socks are awesome and do well with a trained shooter. Perfect practice makes perfect. Optics: What scope do you have, use it; learn it, check that it shoots the box consistently and holds zero. (for 1K yards; I'd recommend range of maximum 25-60 power optics. Higher power can mean higher mirage... I use 36X and am looking to go 45x. Do the rules of competition you're interested in have requirements? Hard to use a scope in iron sight matches...

#3, Reloading capability (do you reload? If not use Federal GoldMedal Match 175 and ignore the rest). Don't skimp on the reloading, but a gas gun can be hard on brass. If you chase velocity expect to get an adjustable gas block to reduce case head swipe. Neck turning may be great; and will be worthless if your brass stove-pipes from a poorly timed gas system. I'd leave advanced brass prep to later stages. Your DPMS barrel may shoot great, or may not. Great practice for working up loads anyway. Start with your bullet. for 1K yards and a gas-gun with 24" barrel; I'd recommend a 175 Sierra, 175 Nosler, 178 Hornady. Powder and Primers are up to you; tons and tons of info; but too slow of a burn will make gas system timing a real PITA without adding more components. Try H4895, or IMR4895; or similar. 4064 series is decent too.

Best of luck to you, and hope you enjoy the process. Somewhere along the way of improving accuracy we all caught the bug.

-Mac

 

[dcali]

OK, so before getting to specifics, I feel obligated to say that an AR of any sort is not an ideal long range rifle when compared to a properly set up bolt gun. 308-pattern AR's have a lot more nuance to them than .223's and I'm not an expert by any stretch, but you'll want a high quality, long barrel capable of shooting as heavy a bullet as is practical. There are probably limits to what you can do with an AR - I'm sure someone else will chime in with specifics.

A good trigger will also help a lot. I'm partial to the Geisele triggers (they're great), but other makers make some good stuff as well.

Beyond triggers and barrels, there's not a ton you can do to an AR to make it shoot better. They kind of are what they are.

But consider a bolt gun. It's a lot less painful.

 

[JAD1967]

Welcome to the forum. I hope you're an accuracy minded shooter and know that even though I have an opinion and recommendations; these are really just suggestions for more of your own research. There is NOT one thing to do that makes your DPMS perfect. You'll have to figure out what you think is needed and learn as you go.

I along with many others on this site have really enjoyed our DPMS parts and rifles, and honestly; I'm very impressed with what I can do given the cost. Please excuse my questions, but I think answers will help others including myself in assembling valid and useful responses.

1. I see you want to shoot 1000y. What are your 1000 goals? Your current rifle will do 1000 easily. PRS, F-Class, High-power, SnG, Gongs?

A time tested accuracy standard for rifles is 1MOA and there are many many many threads on a 1/4MOA at 100y rifle not being 1MOA at 1000y. Truth is, a 1MOA rifle could be a winner in just about any 1000 competition with an amazing shooter behind it (bob lee swagger?!?)

The rest of us at 1000y have our equipment performing at a level to help us compensate for mistakes in wind reading, shooting fundamentals, etc...

2. My experience with LR-308s comes from three DPMS uppers in specific. One is the LR-308 with DPMS barrel 24". Second is a LR-6.5 DPMS upper. Third is a custom built, custom chambered in M852 Match 308. Some of these are similar, but your rifle WILL be different (somewhere between small slightly, to Ford vs. Chevy).

I'm going to make the assumption that you want 1MOA at 1000y or better. I'm going to make the assumption that your budget is minimal and you'd rather not toss dollars away at band-aids that get pitched later.

#1, Accurate rifle set-up for LR-308. (do you have the tools to be a consistent shooter). Practice doesn't make perfect; Perfect practice makes perfect. Only upgrade from a stock LR is a good trigger. Depending on your competition rules, different triggers are recommended for pull weights. Expect $250 to get you a great trigger, and change if you grab a sale. Brand bias: I've never gone wrong with Gieselle; I've been beaten by shooters with other triggers; it wasn't my triggers fault, just the loose nut driving it.

#2, Rifle Set-up. How are you shooting at 1k yards. Good rest and bag, but only if you are using EGW bag riders (or similar); or have a bag-riding buttstock. Bipods and socks are awesome and do well with a trained shooter. Perfect practice makes perfect. Optics: What scope do you have, use it; learn it, check that it shoots the box consistently and holds zero. (for 1K yards; I'd recommend range of maximum 25-60 power optics. Higher power can mean higher mirage... I use 36X and am looking to go 45x. Do the rules of competition you're interested in have requirements? Hard to use a scope in iron sight matches...

#3, Reloading capability (do you reload? If not use Federal GoldMedal Match 175 and ignore the rest). Don't skimp on the reloading, but a gas gun can be hard on brass. If you chase velocity expect to get an adjustable gas block to reduce case head swipe. Neck turning may be great; and will be worthless if your brass stove-pipes from a poorly timed gas system. I'd leave advanced brass prep to later stages. Your DPMS barrel may shoot great, or may not. Great practice for working up loads anyway. Start with your bullet. for 1K yards and a gas-gun with 24" barrel; I'd recommend a 175 Sierra, 175 Nosler, 178 Hornady. Powder and Primers are up to you; tons and tons of info; but too slow of a burn will make gas system timing a real PITA without adding more components. Try H4895, or IMR4895; or similar. 4064 series is decent too.

Best of luck to you, and hope you enjoy the process. Somewhere along the way of improving accuracy we all caught the bug.

-Mac

Thanks, I have never competed. I am planning to learn some long range shooting with TIII here in Nebraska this summer. If I do well I will look into local matches. I was pretty good in the Marine Corp at 500 yards but have never tried any shots beyond that.

I have the Gieselle trigger on my .300 Blackout. I really like it. I will probably get one for my DPMS. As for the scope, I got a Leupold Mark 4 ER/T M5 8.5x25-50 today with the Mildot reticle. Going to put it on and try it out on Wednesday and see how it goes. Thanks for the help.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Where are you located in Nebraska? Eastern Nebraska Gun Club has monthly matches in both Conventional (sling) and F-Class. If you are within driving distance of Louisville, NE (~20 mi SW of Omaha), I would encourage you to come out to one of our matches and see what they entail. It would also be a good opportunity to chat with like-minded folks about precision shooting. Even if you're more into the PRS-style shooting, it still might be of benefit with regard to load development and precision.

With respect to your setup, the main limitation you will likely find is that a 24" barrel is not going to give you exceptional velocity with the better BC bullet offerings available. That doesn't mean you can't reach out to 1000 yd, it simply means you will need to be much better at making wind calls due to the greater wind deflection from a slower load.

The first question I would ask is whether you intend to load your own? If "yes" and your rifle has the freebore to accommodate a longer good BC bullet such as the Berger 185 Juggernaut, I think you will find the performance advantages over typical 175 gr bullets to be significant. Your bullet choices will also depend on whether you need to load to mag length. Conventional and F-Class require single feeding rounds in competition, so mag length is not a consideration. If it is, I would think about choosing from the highest BC bullets in the next lower weight class (168s to 175s). There are several pretty good options available there as well, including the Berger 168 Hybrid and 175 OTM Tactical bullet. If you are not going to roll your own, I would suggest looking at the Applied Ballistics Munitions offerings. They're pricey, but you can get near handload quality with much better BC bullets than are typically found in commercial ammunition.

Whether you choose commercial ammunition or load your own, you will first want to come up with the best possible load you can develop/find. At that point, you'll be ready to start figuring out what else you may be able to do with your setup to optimize precision. In other words, you really need something that shoots fairly decent to determine how much, if anything, still needs to be done. For that reason, I would start with finding a good load before doing anything else. Otherwise, it will be difficult to determine where things really are with your setup. You might find the links below useful:

http://www.highpowerinnebraska.com/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.nebraskafclass.com/f_class_clinic.html

http://www.buyabmammo.com/308-win.html

 

[JAD1967]

Where are you located in Nebraska? Eastern Nebraska Gun Club has monthly matches in both Conventional (sling) and F-Class. If you are within driving distance of Louisville, NE (~20 mi SW of Omaha), I would encourage you to come out to one of our matches and see what they entail. It would also be a good opportunity to chat with like-minded folks about precision shooting. Even if you're more into the PRS-style shooting, it still might be of benefit with regard to load development and precision.

With respect to your setup, the main limitation you will likely find is that a 24" barrel is not going to give you exceptional velocity with the better BC bullet offerings available. That doesn't mean you can't reach out to 1000 yd, it simply means you will need to be much better at making wind calls due to the greater wind deflection from a slower load.

The first question I would ask is whether you intend to load your own? If "yes" and your rifle has the freebore to accommodate a longer good BC bullet such as the Berger 185 Juggernaut, I think you will find the performance advantages over typical 175 gr bullets to be significant. Your bullet choices will also depend on whether you need to load to mag length. Conventional and F-Class require single feeding rounds in competition, so mag length is not a consideration. If it is, I would think about choosing from the highest BC bullets in the next lower weight class (168s to 175s). There are several pretty good options available there as well, including the Berger 168 Hybrid and 175 OTM Tactical bullet. If you are not going to roll your own, I would suggest looking at the Applied Ballistics Munitions offerings. They're pricey, but you can get near handload quality with much better BC bullets than are typically found in commercial ammunition.

Whether you choose commercial ammunition or load your own, you will first want to come up with the best possible load you can develop/find. At that point, you'll be ready to start figuring out what else you may be able to do with your setup to optimize precision. In other words, you really need something that shoots fairly decent to determine how much, if anything, still needs to be done. For that reason, I would start with finding a good load before doing anything else. Otherwise, it will be difficult to determine where things really are with your setup. You might find the links below useful:

http://www.highpowerinnebraska.com/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.nebraskafclass.com/f_class_clinic.html

http://www.buyabmammo.com/308-win.html

I am in Grand Island. I will try to come watch some matches. I have lots to learn!

 

[SWRichmond]

For a new shooter:
1. Barrel quality
2. Shooter consistency (group size will initially shrink, and then stop shrinking. You are not sure if it is you or the rifle, but you will begin to become convinced it is the rifle...so on to...)
3. Ammo quality and tailoring to the barrel / chamber (when you can see the ammo is limiting you)
4. Trigger (you will start seeing how much using the factory trigger moves the rifle while firing and it will p*** you off)
5. Bullet choice and quality (by this time you will have shot out the first barrel, and with a semi auto no doubt destroyed your first batches of brass, and you will start asking your second round of questions about twist rates, bullet choices, jump, length of finished rounds...how should I chamber this new barrel?)
6. Optics choice and quality (I can't see what i need to see with this scope...)

By this time the kids are wearing worn out clothes and the tires on the car are bald.

 

[dcali]

I am in Grand Island. I will try to come watch some matches. I have lots to learn!

Definitely stop by and shoot a match - just bring the stock rifle. As long as you understand its limitations, you'll still have a great time and learn a lot. There are some 1000 yard gong shoots every now and then in Lexington as well. http://www.1kplus.com/