Disappointed with my 6mmBR and 105 Scenars & A-max bullets

[ALO]

I have been looking through the posts and have been making sacrifices to the reloading gods to get better accuracy out of my 6BR. It wears a Krieger 1 in 8 twist with a 27 inch barrel. chamber by Greg Walley a Kelbly's. All of the other rifles chambered for me by Kelbly's and by Greg shoot fabulously, but this little number I have not been able to get it to shoot. I bought about 12 boxes of the 105 Scenars - hoping that I have the best of the best for this rifle. Why, it is even topped with 8x32 NightForce NXS scope. The best I have been able to group with this rifle is about .6 MOA. Haven't been able to get much better than that. I have tried ladder loads for 29.7 through 30.7 grains - all Varget. Into the lands, on the lands, just off the lands. Hornady a-max bullets are of similar pattern. I have a box of 108 Bergers and a lot of 107 SMK but have not tried them yet. Who knows maybe the 108 or 107 are the answer?? I'm ready to trade my remaining boxes of 105 scenars for other bullets. I have even comtemplated going back to eye surgeon and having RK surgery again! This 6BR has not lived up this site's hype. As a matter of fact, I've got a new Remington .223 in a 1-12 twist that will out shoot this 6mmbr all day long! Hoping anyone can help. Thanks in advance!

Al O

 

[dreever]

Al,

I could never get the Lapua's to shoot either. If you mic them you will find that they measure UNDER .2430. Berger 105 VLD's on the other hand measure .24315. Kreiger makes two different bores one is a .236 the other is a .237. My .237's will not shoot the under size Lapua's.

Having said that get some Berger 105 VLD's and use this load.
Lapua brass
Berger 105 VLD's seated .015 into the lands
CCI 450 primers
30.5 grains of Varget

Try the above load with the Berger 108 BT's also.

I have two 6BR's both .237 bore Kreigers, one prefers the 105 VLD's the other the 108 BT's. Both rifles will shoot under an inch at 600 yards with good conditions if I do my part.
The attached pictures were shot with the above mentioned loads.
List the lapua's in the classifieds, you'll be able to get what you paid for them.

Danny

 

[Ott]

I get great results with the 105 grain scenars using 29.5 grains of N140.

 

[gambleone]

The 108 bergers work for me but i have to jump them 30th. Works well with varget or RL-15. The berger 90bt's also work well but jammed. 1/8tw, cci-450.

 

[BlackHawk95]

ALO, I know what you mean about not being ablr to find a load that perfoms the way you want it to.. Ive gone though the same thing with my 6mm BR. I tried all the same bullets you have tried. But you know the bullet that worked for me, the 95gr SMK. and even the 95gr VLD, its not as forgiving as the SMK but both shoot better than any of the 105-107gr bullets. oh, and by the way my barrel is a 8 twist Broughton 5C.

Hope this helps,

Jerid

 

[Gman]

My 6BR doesn't like the 105 Scenars also. I realize that what I'm about to say is totally against the grain, but my 28' long, HV Krieger, .237 bore, 1 in 8' twist, just doesn't like Varget powder. It will shoot 105 A Maxs, 105 Bergers, 108 BIBs, and 108 Bergers great with RL 15. And EVERY bullet likes to be jumped. Go figure !

 

[TonyR]

Have you shot anything over a chronograph? It would help to know how much of what you are seeing can be attributed to velocity variation or other factors.
I found that VV N540 with CCI450 primers gave the best velocity and accuracy,vertical dispersion) in my 6mm BR Kreiger 31 inch .237 1:8 twist. It shoots the Berger 95, 105, and 115 VLds and 108 BT bullets well, but my best results have come with the 105 VLD jammed .010-.015 and the 108 BT just touching the lands. I bought the gun used but my measurements of loaded rounds indicate that it was chambered for the 107 SMK with the boattail junction seated close to the neck/shoulder junction. I have tried Varget and RL-15 as well but settled on the N540 after some extensive testing at 300, 600, and 1000 yards.

 

[signut]

105 Scenars did not make me jump for joy. Ended up with 107 SMK's, 30.3 Varget, jumping .020. No turn neck .0272 chamber. Also shot well with the 108 Berger. Just my .02 worth.

 

[6BR]

If your 6BR does not shoot, that is a very rare thing. I can tell you this with confidence, it's not the cartridge, it's probably your barrel. If your barrel is .237 bore, I've heard from many 6BR shooters that it will not like the longer skinnier bullets. However, I have heard the .237 bore loves the 95grn bullets. Remember, you might have gotten a bad barrel which is also rare. It happens to all barrel makers. Trust me, the 6BR is awesome.

 

[Mikem]

At the range your shooting, 600yds, this may not apply, but my Pac-Nor 1 in 8' 6BR likes the Berger 80g jammed, with 30.5g of Varget the best. And it doesn't like the Berger 95s, or heaver, or at least I haven't found a good load for them. I do have two slight handy cap though, our clubs range only has paper out to 200 yds, and steel out to 400.
So I do most of my shooting at 100, plus Im no young kid, and with a bad ticker, I dont like walking out to the 200 yd targets and back much any more.
M.

 

[TonyR]

ALO.
What distance are you testing at?

 

[flatlander]

My first 6 Dasher bbl. was a .236' bore Krieger 8-twist, and it loves the Lapua 105s with either Varget or N150. 2nd Dasher is also .236', and it also shoots the Lapuas very well. Typical vertical at 600yds. has usually been well under 2' for that first bbl. Both bbls. shoot any of the other 105-107gr. bullets,VLD or BTHPs) fine, but the Lapuas have been & still are the most consistently accurate heavy bullets I've shot in .236' bore barrels.

All but one of the Dashers or BRs I've chambered myself have been .236' Kriegers. The one non-Krieger was a Broughton 5C; the invoice for it shows a bore dia. of .2368'. I don't recall now whether it liked the Lapuas or not; I've since sold it to another shooter who's been very pleased with it.

Over the past couple of years, I've been ordering Kriegers with .236' bores, and Bartleins with .237'. I have a couple of each brand on my own rifles in Dasher, 6x47L, and 6XC. The Dasher is a Krieger, and it also shoots the Lapuas very well. One of my 6x47s,8-tw) & a 6XC,7.8-tw) have .237' Bartleins, but I haven't tried any Lapuas through them, concentrating instead on loads with Berger & DTAC 115s. May have to try a few of the Lapuas just to see how they perform out of these .237s.

 

[ALO]

Lots of good information for my question! It is certainly appreciated. I think I'm going to get rid of 6+ boxes of the 105 Lapuas. If anyone has 6 boxes of the Berger 108 grain boat tails, I'l trade even up box of 100 for a box of 100. I tried some of the Berger 108 with a considerable amount of improvement. The Krieger barrel also likes to shot with a clean barrel. All of the shooting is done at 100yds. When I was testing the Lapua- I figured, if I can't get the accuracy at 100 yards why bother to try at two hundred. ANd I was correct, the groups opened up. But with this 108 Bergers, the accuracy is much better with 1/4 inch groups consisantly with CCI 450's and 30.5 grains of Varget. Your information was right on the money. I think that I can even improve on that with some in and out adjustments. That group size at 600yards was REALLY IMPRESSIVE! And as far as walking out to 200 yards being a strain - I can relate to that. At South FOrk practice - we have to walk out to 500 yards, over rocky hill and dale. That sucks.

So if anyone is interested in trading BOX FOR BOX for 105 grain Scenars to 108 Berger Boat Tails - I'm interested. First e-mail that says 'I'll trade you!' got 'em. I'll pay the shipping on this end if you pay the shipping on your end. Sound Fair? Good!! My E-mail address is aaostapowicz@roadrunner.com.

 

[Waskawood]

I am really disappointed to read this thread. I took my first plunge into BR shooting this winter and built a 6BR on a Savage Target Action and an 8 twist, .237 diameter Pac Nor barrel. I had picked up 1000 105 gr. Scenars that a local shop had in bulk and was closing out at a price I couldn't buy the A-max for. I was really excited to get this thing to shoot as I had read how easy it was. I should have known!!! The good news is, this great forum has provided me with options. For that I say,'thank you'.

 

[6BR]

+1 on what Lynn said. Excellent info Lynn.

 

[Forum Boss]

CAUTION regarding FULL JAM Seating:

The method recommended by Lynn of finding 'full jam' is used successfully by many shooters.

However, we recommended using an OAL gauge from Hornady/Stoney Point instead of the 'full jam' method because: 1) In some barrels the bullets will stick in the lands and will exit the case as you remove the brass, or change position relative to the case mouth as you start to eject the brass,so you don't really know the jam length at all since the case slid backward); 2) We have found, on testing, that the 'full jam' method is NOT particularly repeatable,due to variances in bullet ogive and other things--including the grabbing issue above).

Also seating at 'full jam', which may be .030' or so past point of initial contact, can, in some barrels, increase the initial pressure spike compared to, say, .010' in the lands. Seating at maximum length, with 30.0 grains of Varget, can potentially be 'TOO hot' in some barrels and with some lots of powder.

With any of the 105-108 class of bullets we recommend starting at a lower load, 29.0 and .010' off the lands. We've found most bullets, but not all, often prefer seating about .010-.015' into the lands, i.e. .010-.015' past point of first contact measured with a Hornady/Stoney Point gauge. But each barrel has its own preferences and you should definitely experiment with .010' and even .020' jump.

Once you master the technique, the OAL gauge is very repeatable. We recently did 10 successive measurements with this tool. Using a Mitutoyo, .0001' caliper, all 10 measurements with the same bullet repeated within .0007'. If you experiment yourself, you may find that the full jam method is not so repeatable.

 

[Waskawood]

Lynn,

Those 1000 Scenars are the only investment I have made that have appreciated in the last 18 months!!!! I understand the pitfalls of doing what I did but everything I read about the 6BR was, build it, fill a Lapua case with about 30 grains of Varget, seat the bullet .015 into the lands and it will shoot like crazy. I am now realizing that the 6BR has its quirks just as well as any other cartridge. Just want to thank everyone again for all the suggestions. This is a great site for us neophytes.

 

[Waskawood]

Lynn,

I have not shot my new rifle. My concern is that I have a .237 diameter barrel and I am now reading that Scenars do not like that diameter making me wish I had a .236. I am hopefully worrying over nothing. It will probably live up the my expectations and like the barrel I now have. If not I will do as posted and start playing around until I figure it out. After all, that is why we reload. Again, thanks for the input.

 

[dreever]

Waskawood,

Both my 6mm barrels are .237's and they shoot great. Just not the undersized Lapua's.
If you buy a 6mm barrel from Bruno's all you'll get is a .237 he doesn't order anything else from Kreiger. I got that info directly from Kreiger.
Sell the Lapua's, buy Bergers, and all will be right with the world! LOL!

Danny

 

[expiper]

Wasaka your rifle is telling you something,it is shouting!!!),,listen...it is saying that it doesnt like Lapua bullets.....dont wish you had a .236 bbl....you shuld be wishing for Berger or Sierra bullets and shoot what the bbl likes....as many have said...'the .236 bbl is for the skinny Uropeein bullets and the A-max....Roger