I've been loading for three hunting rifles, and still in early stages of load development. With my 243 and my 270, I can shoot all the way through max recommended loads without any problems. However, with my 270 WSM, I'm seeing a small circle on the head of my cases (extractor marks?). With MagPro, I see the mark and experience heavy bolt lift at 68 gr-- a full grain below Lyman max and 1.5 gr below Nosler max. With IMR 4350, the marks showed up at 58.5 gr-- 2 gr below Nosler max and 3 gr below Lyman max. Shooting 140 accubond in both instances- groups were getting tighter- bolt lift got much more difficult with the 4350. OAL 2.85" in both instances. This was all new brass and I lubricated the cartridges because I read that would extend case life and it made sense to me... I stopped shooting. Any reason for concern? Thanks
Difficulty with sub-max loads...
- Thread starter Jody Simcox
- Start date
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
Jody,
Let me say from the outset, I do not load (or have) a 270. But what caught my eye in your post was the description of a "small circle" on the heads of the casings. Not sure what you mean by that and a picture would help. Secondly, you mention a "heavy lift" bolt. And for clarification on "going 2 - 3 gr below" loads. Are you saying you are going that far below "RECOMMENDED MINIMUM LOADS?" If so, what I'm reading is a suspicion that you have PRESSURE which COULD mean trouble. I had a shooting buddy with at least 50 yrs of reloading experience get really cute (STUPID) that is and went 2 grs below minimum recommended loading in a brand new Savage Model 12 .223 and guess what, he blew the rifle into 4 pieces with that stunt. He luckily was not injured, just his pride and his wallet. Be aware, too low a load (in grs) is as dangerous as too high as PRESSURE can still be had in either extreme. You may also be aware, but seating bullets into the lands also drives pressure up that can further complicate an already dangerous situation.
ALex
Let me say from the outset, I do not load (or have) a 270. But what caught my eye in your post was the description of a "small circle" on the heads of the casings. Not sure what you mean by that and a picture would help. Secondly, you mention a "heavy lift" bolt. And for clarification on "going 2 - 3 gr below" loads. Are you saying you are going that far below "RECOMMENDED MINIMUM LOADS?" If so, what I'm reading is a suspicion that you have PRESSURE which COULD mean trouble. I had a shooting buddy with at least 50 yrs of reloading experience get really cute (STUPID) that is and went 2 grs below minimum recommended loading in a brand new Savage Model 12 .223 and guess what, he blew the rifle into 4 pieces with that stunt. He luckily was not injured, just his pride and his wallet. Be aware, too low a load (in grs) is as dangerous as too high as PRESSURE can still be had in either extreme. You may also be aware, but seating bullets into the lands also drives pressure up that can further complicate an already dangerous situation.
ALex
Sorry, I thought I made it clear in my original post. I'm getting ejector marks and heavy bolt lift at loads below max ( not min) recommended loads. I'm too new at this to not follow the rules of safety...all of my loads are gonna be between min and max (inclusive).
dmoran
Donovan Moran
While early pressure sign can be caused by several aspects, your stating that you are lubricating the cartridges, I will suggest to be the culprit reason for your pressure issues, and offer WARNING against doing so.
The transfer of lube from your cases to the chamber walls, could readily and easily be creating a "wet" chamber effect, resulting in lose in seal, increased bolt thrust, and chamber pressure. Unless you are only lubing the cases very conservatively, fallowed by thorough cleaning and drying your chamber after each round or couple rounds fired, your flirting with risks and excessive pressure creation.
Strongly suggest you read more in depth on the topic, and strongly suggest to fallow firearm mfg, case/brass mfg, and reloading manual warnings against lubricated cartridges and/or lubricated chambers.
Donovan
Last edited:
Did you start at min AND WORK UP ? every gun is different. I would highly recommend clean , dry cartridges when firing !
All advice noted and will be followed- thank you. One particular user on several reloading forums suggested lubricating virgin brass (first firing only) to properly fireform brass and extend case life... have learned it's not for me. Thanks for your help.
Ive heard people advise this as well. You are not alone. The idea is to allow the case to slide back and let the shoulder blow forward and not expand at the web of the case
However it is not sound advice and is not wise to practice.
If you are sincerely worried about brass life, you can fireform with a hard jam and moderate powder charge to safely achieve the same end result.
Ok, here it goes... with any published reloading data, ANY.... it does not 100% line up with your gun. They tested it in guns they had, every gun is different. Published load data is an idea of where to start. This is why it is said to always start low and work up. You are finding that your rifle can not handle higher loads compared to published data, thats ok... you work up and load test until YOU start seeing pressure signs, which you are. If your not happy with that powder. Work up a load with a different powder that yeilds more velocity at lower pressures, or basically yeilds lower pressure. You may end up getting where you want to be then.
Jamming bullets into the lands starts pressure higher from the get go, check seating depths.
Moral to the story is dont rely on published data. Check several sorces to find a minimum starting load, always work up
On a side note: i rarely find my rifles will shoot and handle the high end of the "data", usually the sweet spots in between. And Ive a few instances where my starting loads i thought were ok ended up being too much.
Gotta find what YOUR gun likes and forget trying to squeeze all the velocity out you can. Velocity does not equal accuracy.
Dont lube your new brass or any brass when you fire it, you dont want that crud in your chamber. Just make sure its sized properly.
If you lube anything on new brass, lube the inside of the neck with graphite to help in bullet seating ease. But an expander mandrel ran on new brass usually fixs that anyways
Do not lube cases&shoot. Lube cases only to resize then.clean lube off.
Link
Silver $$ Contributor
This is a subject I have never seen before that maybe I should address. I lube with case spray to resize then wipe with a clean towel. I clean my bore with wipeout then try to dry the chamber with a bore mop. I lube my bolt with a light coat of grease or use heavy oil to keep it from wearing. I bet my chamber sees some lubricant. I never see signs of blow buy except a little on my necks. What do you guys think?
interesting. Link
interesting. Link
Well if youre not having any problems then I would say that its probably safe to say that youre probably not having any problems.
If it works, it works. From experiance, be careful with the spray lube, if its not shaken up good before you spray it it sometimes doesnt lube well. Ive had stuck cases in dies from that junk. Imperial sizing wax is WAY better, and last WAY WAY longer. Jmo
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