differance in 280 ackley

[shadrac]

is there any differance in nosler 280 ackley and origanal 280 po ackley

 

[ShootDots]

No Sir... Nosler simply makes brass for Mr. Ackley's "improvement"!

 

[jonbearman]

If you want to use lapua 30-06 necked down,make sure you talk to kiff about it so he can shorten the neck slightly because when you neck it to 280AI it will be slightly shorter so the reamer will cut the chamber for the lapua and you are set.

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

Its all been discussed before on this forum and just requires you to do a search!
If thats too hard then follow this link for your answer. http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/133-280-changes
In a nutshell, Nosler have got a SAAMI chamber approved and a standard chamber is a good thing to use. Standard dies can be used straight off the shelf without the need for custom manufacture.
Hope this helps!

Ian

 

[CatShooter]

is there any difference in Nosler 280 Ackley and original 280 P.O. Ackley

Yes...


There are many Ackley cases and some are extremely popular - like the 22-250 AI... and none were ever acceppted because of head space problems inherent in the way that AI's are chambered (~half of them have head space and head separation problems)

When Nosler wanted to get SAAMI approval for the .280 AI, they submitted an application (and cases) to SAAMI, and SAAMI kicked it back, saying that the way Ackley's were chambered and made, was "Bad Engineering Practice".

Which is why, of all the many versions of AI's, none have ever been accepted by SAAMI.

So, Nosler re-designed it with more crush (shorter shoulder) and SAAMI accepted it.

If you are going to order one made, make sure you tell the smith that you want the Nosler headspace - if he doesn't know what you are talking about, get another gunsmith.

 

[expiper]

OP,,,,response #4 has it right,,,the modern day .280 AI dies (Redding type-S or conventional ) are made with a resize reamer that is compatable with the modern Nosler brass dims,,,,my 7-07 (.280 AI using Lapua 30-06 brass--which requires the datum/headspace moved foreward ~.080",,sorta like being "Dasherized) is desighned to be in concert with this die and not the antiquated Ackley versions,,,,these two ctgs are different at the base line-shoulder dia-datum line/headspace-etc,,,,besides that they are the same (haha) ,,,,,I attempted to post reamer drawings from Kiff on here but am unable to do so ,,,If you would PM/e-mail me I would be happy to send you those drawings,,,,,you can use the modern dies to size ctgs that will go in the original AI chambers but they are very sloppy,,,,,Roger

 

[mshelton]

If you are worried about neck length when forming brass then you can use 270 brass, it's a fuzz longer and you're able to trim it down just so it fits in the chamber. Fire forming will shorten it a bit. Not a concern though if you go with Nosler 280ai from the start.

 

[p-man]

I think some of you should do your research - there's 14 thousandths difference between the original PO Ackley 280 Improved and the Nosler version that they hijacked and went to SAAMI to "standardize". See the attached. Love Nosler bullets but hate their corporate arrogance due to this issue. No one there could ever come up with a good reason for not using what the rest of the community had been using for three decades.

 

[CatShooter]

I think some of you should do your research - there's 14 thousandths difference between the original PO Ackley 280 Improved and the Nosler version that they hijacked and went to SAAMI to "standardize". See the attached. Love Nosler bullets but hate their corporate arrogance due to this issue. No one there could ever come up with a good reason for not using what the rest of the community had been using for three decades.

WRONG...

Nosler tried to get the original version accepted, and SAAMI rejected it. Get your facts straight!

SAAMI will not accept ANY original Ackley case because of headspace problems.

 

[p-man]

Not the reasons I got from my sources: (1) the fully formed original version brass/cartridge has no headspace problems (2) the original Ackley version was already being used by other rifle producers and (3) SAAMI is NOT a regulatory body . . . however my major contention was with the other posts in that there were no differences or issues between the two.

 

[CatShooter]

Not the reasons I got from my sources: (1) the fully formed original version brass/cartridge has no headspace problems (2) the original Ackley version was already being used by other rifle producers and (3) SAAMI is NOT a regulatory body . . . however my major contention was with the other posts in that there were no differences or issues between the two.

(1) the fully formed original version brass/cartridge has no headspace problems:

Half of the Ackleys I have seen have headspasce problems... they are cut too long.

(2) the original Ackley version was already being used by other rifle producers:

But NOT bonafide factories like Nosler.

(3) SAAMI is NOT a regulatory body:

They are a "voluntary compliance organization", where members agree to accept certain standards - if Remington wants to release a new cartridge, they can do it... but the chances of the public accepting it, or ammunition companies making cartridges for it are nill!

Remington sought acceptance with the 17 FireBall, and they did NOT with the XmmBr series of cartridges. The 17 FireBall is an over the counter rifle and cartridge... and no one makes cartridges for the XmmBr Remingtons.

Norma sought acceptance from C.I.P., and the cartridges are commercially loaded in Europe. The 6mmBR Norma became the standard, and that is now the official chamber, not the Rem chamber... it is history.

 

[p-man]

Catshooter, I'm not here to debate the issue and I should NOT have made the comment about Nosler, if for no other reason than it detracted from the intent of the original post. Your points are all true taken in context, however any cartridge if not chambered correctly will cause problems but to say that the original actual design caused problems is simply not true - as to "bonafide" factories, Remington Custom Shop, Christensen Arms, Jarret, and many others would certainly take offense at being referred to as being anything but bonafide. Lastly, not all commercially produced ammunition has been "standardized" by SAAMI - case in point is the 6.5x47 Lapua which is available as loaded ammunition by the originator, Lapua. But back to the real issue here, the Nosler 280 Improved and 280 Ackley Improved are very similar but as seen in the diagram, are two distinctly different cartridges.

 

[expiper]

I think the reason Nozler made their SAMMI version shorter to the datum line was to allow their ctgs to fit in any of the various AI chambers that are out there,,,once fire formed the shooters dies which hopefully match his non standard chamber will keep him shooting,,,,,,it is sorta like the original Rem. BR dims vs the Lapua BR dims,,,,the standard has been set and we need to see the reason for it and the beauty of being able to find reloading dies that work with rifles that are being built today,,,,Roger

 

[CatShooter]

Catshooter, I'm not here to debate the issue and I should NOT have made the comment about Nosler, if for no other reason than it detracted from the intent of the original post. Your points are all true taken in context, however any cartridge if not chambered correctly will cause problems but to say that the original actual design caused problems is simply not true - as to "bonafide" factories, Remington Custom Shop, Christensen Arms, Jarret, and many others would certainly take offense at being referred to as being anything but bonafide. Lastly, not all commercially produced ammunition has been "standardized" by SAAMI - case in point is the 6.5x47 Lapua which is available as loaded ammunition by the originator, Lapua. But back to the real issue here, the Nosler 280 Improved and 280 Ackley Improved are very similar but as seen in the diagram, are two distinctly different cartridges.

"The Remington Custom Shop" is part of Remington - one of the largest arms companies in the world. The custom shop chambers the Nosler version of the 280 Improved.

"Christensen Arms, Jarret, and many others would certainly take offense at being referred to as being anything but bonafide." They may take offense, but they are not - they are small producers like many of the hundreds of small companies - most of which follow SAAMI's recomendations.


"Lastly, not all commercially produced ammunition has been "standardized" by SAAMI - case in point is the 6.5x47 Lapua which is available as loaded ammunition by the originator, Lapua. I said SAAMI standards are meet by US producers - the 6.5x47 L was accepted by C.I.P., and is produced in Europe - NOT the USA.

NO USA maker will touch 6.5x47 L unless it is accepted by SAAMI.

 

[Catdog]

No Sir... Nosler simply makes brass for Mr. Ackley's "improvement"!

That is not quite true. The Nosler chamber .003 to .004 shorter.

 

[crystalgayleguy]

Chamber two rifles with each reamer both headspace gauges work in either one

 

[p-man]

No one said that you could otherwise the operative difference is simply length . . . but 14 thousandths worth.

 

[p-man]

I hate this subject but it does put those involved in a quandry of sorts. I've got my latest 280 Ackley Improved (Original) and have a scratch or micro-gouge in the shoulder of the chamber. At 72, I'm looking at the firearms & equipment side of my 'estate' especially as to what goes to whom. None of my heirs are really involved in reloading. Since I'll never shoot this 280 AI much before I die, I'm trying to decide how to rectify the problem. The purist in me says re-do the chamber in the original but the practical side of me thinks it may be best to take back a couple of turns and have Nosler/SAAMI version cut. At least whomever gets it can shoot factory ammo in it. Doing that makes me feel like I'm voting for Biden for crying out loud

 

[White Eagle]

I think some of you should do your research - there's 14 thousandths difference between the original PO Ackley 280 Improved and the Nosler version that they hijacked and went to SAAMI to "standardize". See the attached. Love Nosler bullets but hate their corporate arrogance due to this issue. No one there could ever come up with a good reason for not using what the rest of the community had been using for three decades.

you hit it