Dies for precision reloading

[84.7600]

Hello all,

Great site. I've been searching the internet trying to get answers and although I've found many answers I've become more confused. You guys seem to be the "precision" shooters I'm striving to be and this site seem to be the answer to my questions.

I've recently purchased a new Remington 700 solely for the purpose of shooting accurately and hopefully getting started in long range competitions. I've been reloading for almost 15 years so I'm not new to the process but I've been using standard dies for .40, .38/357, .45, .223, and .30-06. Since my goal is to be accurate I started looking at competition style .308 dies. And getting more confused. Reading the many threads on this site and others has brought many question to light. So here it goes...

My first concern is dies. Which ones? I've been looking at RCBS Competition Dies but then saw they had Gold Metal dies that seem to be better but there isn't much written about them. I'm not sold on RCBS dies but they are rated good by the internet experts here and elsewhere and don't cost that much more. Unlike Redding and Forster which seem to be expensive plus I haven't even tried yet to figure out what the S, T, or whatever letters they have mean.

What is better for my purpose full length sizing or just the neck. I was under the impression I should first full length size the brass and after it is fired neck sizing would be all that is necessary. Or, reworded, just neck sizing is better for accuracy. If this is true and you guys recommend just neck sizing do I still need to full length the first time and is doing it on a standard resizing causing any harm.

Are the seating dies with the window you put the bullet in worth it or a gimmick? It seems kind of neat to actually see the bullet going in but in the thousands of .223 rounds I've made not seeing it didn't make a difference.

Are the "competetion dies" too good, too slow, or will they wear out any faster than the regular dies. The reason for asking is I may be loading .308 for rifles such as an M14 where any ammo will do. should I just get a regular die set for this or can the "better" dies handle it?

Sorry for what might seem to be basic question but now that I'm trekking into new territory I've discovered I'm lost.

 

[357Mag]

84.7 -

Howdy !

Well.... you asked !!

IMHO - Hornady's "Custom-Grade New Dimension " dies have been working great for me, for many years

Hornady's bullet seater is of the "universal " type, where you change case holding sleeves and seater stems; whenever you need to switch cal's/cartridges. You don't have to run things that way, but their design allows you to. Their seater can be equipped w/ a "Micro-just " seater top, to pick-up a .001" adjustment capability. These work great ! Hornady will also machine you seater stems to suit whatever/whose 'ever bullet you send them, and ship for around $10.00 all included ).

Hornady also makes some great "custom" dies, if you need something for a "wildcat" cartridge
( as I often do ).

I myself have not full-length sized precision rifle brass for over 25yr ( I have not had to, for my types and frequency of shooting ), although I must say; I don't shoot semi-auto's.
I have had Hornady make me a combo " Shoulder Bump/ bushing Neck Size " die; which accepts
"Wilson-style" bushings. I just bump my brass' shoulders .001" after each firing, and use the bushing to size necks down to the tension level I desire. This set-up, it better than sliced bread.

My loaded cartridges ( via Hornady dies ) have "run-out " not even worth mentioning ( there isn't any ).
Their dies are great quality, superbly priced; and turn-times for custom work is very reasonable.

Not to sell them short, but I've also of late had superb results using LEE's " Collet Neck Size Die "
( in this instance... on .35 Rem re-loads ). In my Marlin M336 XLR, my loads have produced 5-shot 200yd groups in the 5/8" - 11/16" range; and it appears that I can get them smaller... if I do better with gunhandling/wind doping et al ).

Best of luck in your endeavors !


With regards,
357Mag

 

[357Mag]

Correction -

...5-shot 100yd groups ".

I appologize for the typo !!!

AACcckkk !

Regards,
357Mag

 

[Irv Benzion]

Hi; I'm a critter shooter and use full length dies for everything. I load for three .22-250s and two Swifts shooting the same ammo in each caliber. My rifles must shoot under .8in at 200 yds constantly or I know something is wrong. Yes, I said 200 yds. I also load for semi's and full lenght resizing is a must. I am aware there are individuals who neck size only but all the National match guns are semi's now and I'm sure that they full length too. If shooting one gun with the same ammo neck sizing is just fine. In honesty I can't comment on which die is best as I haven't done a comparison.

Irv Benzion

 

[Catfish]

From they was you come acrossed I would guess that all of you chambers are factory chambers, and factory chambers are always just alittle larger than min. specs. so there is no chance of any factory ammo not chambering. As for loading factory chambors neck sizing only may extend the case life quite abit. I have dies of about every brand made and load for more different rounds than I care to count. I then to lean to RCBS dies for factory chambers and Reddind for custom chamberings and Wildcats. Lee is the only brand I will never but, I`ve just had to many problems, but some people like them. I like comp. dies with calibrated seaters for super accurate rifles that I will be reseting bullet depth frequently, but I don`t think that they are nessary unless you will be adjusting seating depth frequently.

 

[84.7600]

Thanks for the replies. I looked at the Hornady dies and they look pretty nice. Decent price too but it seems like you need to buy the dies separetly. I need to look into that more. I think it was their match dies that have that neck bushing. that seems like a nice feature I need to look into.

This will be for a standard .308 Win Rem 700. I did read some things thought and think I'll go with the full length resizing.

Much more research to do. Additional opinions are certainly welcome.

 

[bheadboy]

for pd and long range varmit, Redding, for general shooting, and huntin, pistols rcbs.

for custome bbl, chambers, AI, etc, Redding.

Bob

 

[nra-for-life]

I cant comment on the pistol dies but for rifle dies (bottleneck cartriges) both forster and redding are generally thought of as the better dies to have i believe. In my personal experience I have rcbs, forster, lee and wilson dies. If i were to buy dies for a new caliber i would get a wilson seater (requires an arbor press) and a forster full length die honed out to the spec i wanted for neck tension. Id consider buying more than one forster honed to different specs for different bullets/neck tension. Also a lee collet neck die is handy to have as it is easy to experiment with it if you want to try out some different specs.

 

[wmdron]

If you have been bitten by the accuracy bug you will surely end up with a growing collection of Redding, Forster, Wilson dies and possibly custom/semi custom dies by Harrels, Jones etc. Maybe it would be cheaper in the long run to buy once cry once. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Roarke]

Do a google search for "The Rifleman's Journal", bookmark it, and then spend about 5 days reading everything in the article index. German Salazar is both a prolific shooter and reloader but also an excellent writer.


Roarke

 

[MVW]

+1 for the rifleman's journal. There is also a small volume of reloading articles from precision shooting that is very helpful. As for dies, note the recommendation on the lee collet die, above. I spent a huge amount of time trying to sort out case runout issues with bushing dies. The collet die fixed that. Check out the link below.

Run Out issues with type "S" dies
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3784941.0

 

[Shynloco]

84.7600,
First off, welcome to the site. I've only been reloading for a fraction of the time you have, but have learned TONS from other shooters and even more about "precision reloading" thanks to alot of the guys who post here. And since apparently you've been reloading for a while, I'll pass on the benefits of it. But about two years ago, met up with the Benchrest crowd and I quickly learned that true finite accuracy goes well beyond just knowing how to reload a hunting round. Sure any of my loads could drop a deer at 200 yds, but can you put five rounds through a target the size of the Iris in that deer's eye, five times @ 100 yds? That's what "precision reloading" can do IF - the shooter can truly shoot AND your rifle is capable of it. Since that's a three pronged necessity, in the reloading aspect of it, I use Redding and Wilson dies as I chase that five shot one holer. Uniformity in each and every finished cartridge is critical and that starts with the brass you use, making sure each and every piece of brass is as identical as humanly possible which is why I shoot ONLY Lapua brass. Not knocking the other brands, but Lapua offers me the most consistency in starting out my trek. And with I do all most of my resizing with my Redding Dies, but remove the expander balls. The necks are all re-sized with a Sinclair Mandrel Die with the appropriate Mandrel. I've even gotten so ANAL in this "precision reloading" that I even measure the roundness of my necks and group the brass into usually two groups with a difference of + or - .0002 in size. And this is on brass were all the necks have been turned. After the primers and powder is loading, I use STRICTLY Wilson Dies because they've proven to me to produce the best concentricity in a finished cartridge. Then after all those ANAL exercises, the excuses are history and it's time for me to put up or shut up. And that's when I reap the benefits of my efforts. Unfortunately, it is more often the time my rifle tells me, go back to the drawing boards boy, this loads tastes like crap.

Good luck in your efforts and ask these guys whatever you need to know. Throughout my experiences on this blog, there isn't much left un-discussed because there are loads of super bright guys up here who are in the know, have the experience and their targets prove it.

 

[fm1947]

Redding is all can say for rifle dies, hornady has nice tools, rcbs chargemaster, just push some buttons, bullets plenty out there SMK do well

 

[tunered]

How about sending 3or4 fired cases from Your chamber and have RCBS MAKE you a set that fits YOUR chamber.

 

[Juma]

Redding. Clean with USC. Polish with 0000 steel wool and dont champer your throat. Groups have tightened up.

 

[84.7600]

Thanks again for the input. Great articles on the "The Rifleman's Journal". I have read some of those articles months ago but forgot where it was. I find good stuff all the time and am horrible at bookmarking them. There is one there (5 part series) about loading .308 for 1000yards I found enlightening and concerning. I've been looking for it for a while, didn't have any idea where it was. Thanks.

As for the dies, after reading the "Seating Die Runout" article I'm leaning toward the Redding competetion seating die for seating. I still up in the air about sizing. I still think I like full length for consistency but just don't know. I like the idea of the bushing dies but after reading some problems if the sizing it too great I don't know. I'm not against taking three steps to get the necks to the proper tension by using bushings in small steps. The Lee collet die was mentioned. I guess I'll look into that too.

Do you guys use different brand dies in the process? Lets say a RCBS full length die, a Lee collet die, then a Redding seater die. Or is that just getting crazy? I'm liking the idea a separate die for the neck sizing. It just seems to give the reloader more control.

I guess I'll have to fire a round in the rifle and measure it to see just how big my chamber, especially in the neck area, is. Problem is the rifle isn't here yet. No set time for delivery although I'm hoping for the next two weeks. hopefully it is tight and the neck is close to where it should be.

To clear up something I said earlier (first post second to last paragraph) I should say I'm not planning on using my "good" dies for "bulk" reloading. I leaning toward getting a set of "standard" dies for the M14. Especially if I'm going to go the separate neck sizing route. The M14 is purely for blasting which I'm not taking the time to make "precision" rounds for.

Anyway thanks for the advice and links. As wmdron stated I've been bittem by the bug and will probably keep getting new equiptment including dies, rifles, etc. My wife is going to be so thrilled. I'm already saddened that I don't have better dies for my hunting 30-06 or pistols. Not that I need them but just because my rounds could be better.

 

[ehparis]

What you're looking for is a "bump" die with bushings to size the neck only but give a slight bump to the shoulder of the case. These can be had from a number of vendors. Mine is a Redding.

 

[BoydAllen]

Collet die, body die (no FL needed when you combine the two), Forster ultra seater. A friend who has both gets better results with the Forster. German does terrific work, but you might want to take another look at the article, and pay attention to how he did his accuracy evaluation.....and think about that for a minute or two.