die question for bumping shoulder

[Schandler]

have a long throated 204r - xr100 and some hornady brass tend to be hard to close bolt on and some not - i know its not coal and brass is consistent as far as necks so it must be shoulder not getting bumped enough with the dies - i have competition rcbs dies so what are my choices for bumping shoulder in order to correct this - will i have to buy another set of dies that do not neck size ? and why some cases and not all ? -- i like consistency and i dont mind pushing a little harder on bolt but this has to be effecting my accuracy any input thanks

 

[NorCalMikie]

How many times has the brass been fired? Might be time to anneal. Brass gets hard and won't move when resized like it did when it had less firings and was softer.

 

[LHSmith]

Assuming your dies are FL, you need to readjust the die for more shoulder bump. The proper method to adjust the die is to use a bump gauge and measure with a decent calipers. Sinclair and Hornady are the two most popular tools, Hornady is sold as a Lock and Load Headspace Gauge Tool.
Hopefully it is just a matter of lowering the die. In rare cases, if the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die before the press hits it's stop, the S/H or die will have to be modified. Note- Competition S/H's will not work in this situation (unless you started with one of the higher number S/H's to begin with.)
The reason this happens to some cases and not others is they work harden at different rates...even if they are from the same lot.
Yes, inconsistent cartridge shoulder bump definitely affects accuracy, and be aware that hard chambering is causing undue wear on the bolt lugs and abutments. Keep the lugs greased. Last thing you want to do is gall the lugs.

 

[Hotshot]

I don't think RCBS comp dies are full length resize, just the neck on mine.

 

[bsc4444]

Like LH said. I use the Hornady tool. Very easy to use and there are all the gauge bushings in one package.

 

[CatShooter]

have a long throated 204r - xr100 and some hornady brass tend to be hard to close bolt on and some not - i know its not coal and brass is consistent as far as necks so it must be shoulder not getting bumped enough with the dies - i have competition rcbs dies so what are my choices for bumping shoulder in order to correct this - will i have to buy another set of dies that do not neck size ? and why some cases and not all ? -- i like consistency and i dont mind pushing a little harder on bolt but this has to be effecting my accuracy any input thanks

You can get a Forster "Bump" die in 204 R... it will solve that problem - but if you are not too bothered by the tight fit of the cases, then shoot it as it is.

Try loose fitting cases against tight fitting cases for accuracy - you will find no difference.

 

[potatoe]

I disagree with Cat on this one. I know in my PPC's and dashers that tight bolt closing (resistance high on the bolt turn) would cause flyers more often then not. I prefer FL bushing dies (Redding, Harrell's, custom etc.) that can bump the shoulder when the time comes.

 

[CatShooter]

I disagree with Cat on this one. I know in my PPC's and dashers that tight bolt closing (resistance high on the bolt turn) would cause flyers more often then not. I prefer FL bushing dies (Redding, Harrell's, custom etc.) that can bump the shoulder when the time comes.

He's not shooting a custom PPC with custom Harrel'sdies - it is a factory 204 with a factory barrel - not even in the same world.

To a hammer, all problems need a nail, but just sometimes, the solution needs to fit the problem.

 

[L-46]

i would not bump the shoulder, unless you know by how much,
if the base is tight you can push the shoulder back .010" and still be tight
your dies are a bad fit or not adjusted to your chamber

 

[Schandler]

Fellas I appreciate all the comments. It is a rem xr100 factory and I think my problem may have been my rcbs comp die was not tightened down enough to get fl or it was not bottoming out in other words. I have some new brass and bullets today and have corrected the die. I will post back after shooting some. I do believe the tighter bolt close on a few cases caused a flier horizontal and always to the left as much as an inch. We will see. I will also load some of older brass with bullets I was suing after resizing to see if that was my problem. Thanks again

 

[LHSmith]

That's a nice rifle capable of good to great accuracy, don't ruin the bolt lug interface by feeding it hard- to- chamber rounds. As you found out, the key to accuracy is to minimize as many variables as possible. Consistent chambering force IS one variable you can control by diligent resizing.

 

[rvn1968]

I have been trying to solve a similar problem and thought that I had found the solution. A reloading article that was on this site showed a Harrell's collar which allowed you to measure the exact amount that you were pushing back the shell,necessary because some FL dies are too long. I cannot find the collar that was shown in the article and I didn't print it out. If anyone knows where to find one,I would be VERY grateful. ( a box of Bergers grateful). Tom

 

[Patch700]

I have been trying to solve a similar problem and thought that I had found the solution. A reloading article that was on this site showed a Harrell's collar which allowed you to measure the exact amount that you were pushing back the shell,necessary because some FL dies are too long. I cannot find the collar that was shown in the article and I didn't print it out. If anyone knows where to find one,I would be VERY grateful. ( a box of Bergers grateful). Tom

By looking at a dimensional drawing of your cartridge you should be able to find the diameter at which they measure the datum line for the shoulder... That number be it .330" or .375" or whatever the number may be is what you are interested in.

If for example your particular case states the datum number to the midpoint of the shoulder is .375" then you can use whatever is at your disposal that has an ID of .375" and will still fit between the stationary blade of your calipers and the brass being measured.

Could be a piece of pistol brass with the primer punched out or a small chunk of tubing , so long as the ID is the same as the # that your datum diameter is you should be fine.

Even if the said piece you are using is not exact to .001 that is not important as these measurements are merely used for a reference from one case to another with that particular tool.

Good luck.

 

[rvn1968]

Thanks Patch,I know that I can use a piece of copper tubing in place of the collar but I was hopeful of finding the right tool.Tom

 

[Patch700]

Harrells will sell you them without having to purchase a die.... Whidden also makes their own comparators for their dies , you can try them too.

 

[rvn1968]

I think that I'll send Harrells fired brass and buy a die,they will add the collar. Tom