Dem Buttons

[Forum Boss]

Folks,

If you look at the top of the page you'll see six buttons. Those little buttons may be the most important things on the whole site. Those companies are making it possible for the site to keep going... and growing.

Each of those companies is either offering a percentage of sales, or is paying for half a million impressions a month. That's a very big deal, and it's really important we support these vendors, because they've all made a major commitment to the site.

With their support, hopefully I can get back to generating a lot more articles and everyone benefits from that.

I encourage you to support these sponsors,and, of course, our long-standing banner advertisers as well). Additionally, tell your friends about the site. As traffic grows we can do a LOT more for you guys. One example is that I was recently talking to Jerry Stiller. At my request he agreed to offer $100 off his Viper and Cobra drop-port RB, LP PPC-bolt actions. That program is in place because we asked for it. As site traffic grows, our clout with manufacturers grows commensurately, and then we can help deliver more promotions and special deals for you guys.

 

[WayneShaw]

While I agree about the sponsors being important, is it just me, or does everyone experience that when you hit the "back" button, it returns to the top of the page where these "buttons" are, instead of where you were? Is it just me?

 

[Forum Boss]

Wayne,

We've added a little bit of script to have the forum scroll to top of page when you click on a new thread. This was requested by a number of people.

The scroll-up when going backwards wasn't intended. On my computer it only does that with MS I-Explorer. Using FireFox,Mozilla) or Opera, when I back click,using "back" button, OR right click nav OR mouse gesture) I go back to same vertical level where I was before.

Don't mean to sound like a typical tech guy, but you might want to start using FireFox. For most people it is faster than I-Explorer and it definitely has fewer security flaws.

 

[WayneShaw]

When you open a new page, naturally it should open at the top. But to hit the back key, and always end up at the top, and have to scroll back down each time, isn't right. IE or not, this is the only site that does that, and it has only happened recently.

If I had to hazard a guess, it is being done intentionally to bring attention to the ads.

 

[jb1000br]

Wayne, it was done for other reasons...like he said, several people have requested it.

It is a real easy fix if it bothers you that much. Download Mozilla Firefox at the link below. I run firefox, and it doesn't do what you are talking about.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/


It was not done to intentionally bring attention to the buttons...but even if it had been, why is that a problem?

Simply stated, the sponsors are the reason the website exists, and the only way for it to grow and for us to add new content,FREE content remember)...if there were no sponsers, there would be no website.

I personally always do whatever I can to buy things from those that contribute to the site...haven't found the need to stray from the sponsor list...

FWIW,
JB

 

[WayneShaw]

I sure would like to know who these requesters are. What affiliation do they have with the ads? Why would a normal viewer what to be directed to the top of a page every time?

Firefox is not supported by many other websites, like on-line banking, stock trading, you know, important things. I would like to know the percentage of people that use Firefox, as opposed to Internet Explorer.

Compare this site with the other shooter oriented sites. This one exceeds the amount of "in-your-face" ads by far. They are at the top and bottom.

There is nothing wrong with having ads on a website, as long as it is done tastefully, does not distract from the main intent of the site, and is not overwhelming. This site has always been slow to load, but the ads only ad to it.

Yes I know, it's your site, conduct it as you see fit.......

 

[BillK]

I actually like going to the top of every page first!!!! In all honesty I wondered why when going to a new page you would be down near the bottom and have to manually scroll to the top. I like the new way!!!

 

[Forum Boss]

I sure would like to know who these requesters are. What affiliation do they have with the ads? Why would a normal viewer what to be directed to the top of a page every time?

Very simple. If you start from the Forum home, and click on a sub-forum,e.g. Rimfire Forum), page-top navigation will take you to the most recent thread. Then, when you click on the thread, page-top navigation will take you to the beginning of the thread,where most readers want to start), unless you specifically click on the last post.

Most readers go to a thread once, then go to another thread. They have ALWAYS tended to read the threads that are ranked near the top.

None of the advertisers have dictated how the page is designed or how the navigation has handled. Many, many users have told us they wanted us to implement navigation that would reduce vertical scrolling. That's what we've tried to do.

Firefox is not supported by many other websites, like on-line banking, stock trading, you know, important things. I would like to know the percentage of people that use Firefox, as opposed to Internet Explorer.

Firefox,or Mozilla), is used by 1/3 of web users: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

In my experience, FireFox DOES work with stock trading and banking sites. I've personally tested it with Bank of America, Wells, Citibank, Chase, Washington Mutual, Charles Schwab, Fidelity, eTrade, TDAmeritrade and all the major auction sites. I have yet to find a site that doesn't work with the UPDATED Firefox. Not saying they aren't out there.

Compare this site with the other shooter oriented sites. This one exceeds the amount of "in-your-face" ads by far. They are at the top and bottom.

Most shooting web sites consist of a Forum only. If we were running only a forum, the site could be supported with maybe 20 hours of volunteer labor a month and $400 to pay server costs. By contrast 6mmBR.com | AccurateShooter.com has over 800 pages of content. Some of the major articles take 100+ man-hours to create. We have features you won't find on other sites: Cartridge Guides, Interviews with Champions, BLOG, Daily Bulletin, Guns of the Week, Buyers Guides. The reason all that content exists is that I work full-time on the site, and have done so for the past 2.5 years.

Users contribute about $150.00 per month to the site. As you can imagine, that doesn't go very far. In many months that won't even cover site-related phone expenses. Just two days ago I paid $100.00 in parts shipping costs for a test we have in progress.

All our content is FREE. Even the classifieds are FREE.

If you compare the level of advertising on this site with a print magazine, the difference is an order of magnitude. A successful magazine will contain 30-40% advertising, in terms of square inches. Looking at this site overall, including the editorial side, less than 1% of our layout,in square inches) is dedicated to ads. Yes, you'll see a big ad on the home page and the buttons on the forum, but they are placed there because that's where traffic is concentrated.

Most of our users are running 1024x768 monitors that deliver 786432 pixels over a full screen. ALL the ads at the top of the page take up 44448 pixels, or 5.6% of the total screen.

There is nothing wrong with having ads on a website, as long as it is done tastefully, does not distract from the main intent of the site, and is not overwhelming. This site has always been slow to load, but the ads only ad to it.

We have had banner ads on the Forum, top and bottom, since the beginning of 2006. The 6 small buttons increase the Forum page load by only about 15kb.

Wayne, bottom line is that without advertising, the site can not be sustained by voluntary user contributions--based on what we've seen to date. Most other users seem to understand that if the site is going to continue to be FREE, somebody has to pay the bills--and that includes the cost of a full-time moderator/editor/writer/blogger/graphics artist/IT guy/researcher/webmaster.

You're a site "veteran"--you've been with us since 2005. We appreciate that. You, no doubt, have seen an increased emphasis on revenue generation over time. That's simply because, in order to keep working on the site, I HAD to develop ways to pay my costs of living. If I go broke, the site shuts down and goes "bye-bye", forever. Then it will all be "academic" as to whether a forum page should open at the top vs. at the bottom.

 

[Riverine]

I've been mostly a lurker, but I've been around since 'way back when,2004). I certainly don't have any problem with the way the navigation works.

Yes, I'm using Firefox right now and I suggest other folks try it out as an alternative to I-Explorer. It's more secure, and loads most sites faster.

When I clicked on this thread, it took me to the first post. That makes sense to me, since this is the first time I visited the thread. I guess some guys want to see the last post first, but unless you're following a thread post by post, it makes more sense to me to start at the top of the page. I visit the site maybe twice a week, and bounce from thread to thread, and I'd much rather read a thread from beginning to end.

Regarding advertising, what's the problem? I think most of the ads are helpful. I saw Stiller's ad for $100 off a Viper action. I'd been thinking about getting a Viper for a while and that clinched the deal. If the ads are needed to support the content, then so be it. I've found the gear reviews and buyers guides really helpful. I recently bought a new gun safe, and I can tell you, this site had the most complete and useful information I found anywhere.

Yeah, other sites may have fewer ads but are they delivering content? I come here because I like the stories, and the tech reports, and the BLOG. I don't see even big-budget print magazines producing really good stories with top shooters. I don't see ANYbody else offering a decent BLOG for precision shooting. I know that stuff takes time to produce. If donations are really only $150/mo, we all know that won't pay to run a site of this scale.

 

[CopperHead]

I also use Firefox so I do not have the problem that WayneShaw seems to have but I may have a solution for him. To quickly get to the top or bottom of any page I use the home and end buttons that are almost every keyboard Mac or PC. Using these buttons takes you instantly to the bottom or top of a page.

MODERATOR: Great tip Copperhead! I've used those with MS Word documents but never figured they'd work with a browser. Great work-around for I-Explorer!