Degree of Ammo Prep vs Benefits in Factory Rifles?

[BoydAllen]

Phil,
Put out some sticks with surveyors' tape attached to their tops (hanging down to the ground, about 4" tall). at about 10 yards, 35 yards and 65 yards. Little breezes move bullets, and every thing that I know tells me that you are seriously kidding yourself about the wind on your range.....but the rest is all good. Keep up the good work.
Boyd

 

[Phil3]

I don't know how the range feels about me sticking up flags but will ask. It can be dead still there, but at times, you can feel a light breeze. Given your comment, I went to the JBM Ballistics calculator for my Sierra 52 grain MK bullets. I don't know the velocity but approximated it at 2800ft/sec for the light loads I was using. And I admit, I was surprised. A 1 (ONE) mph wind can affect point of impact by .2". That could potentially double my group size if I had a 1 mph breeze on one shot and not the next. 2 mph = .3. 3 mph = .5". That is more than I expected and obviously something I need to watch for. Sticks with flags....another piece of gear to bring!

Phil

 

[BoydAllen]

Keep us posted as to your progress, or at least PM me. You have distinguished yourself in one way. You listened, did some investigation, and are willing to try something new. That deserves a big atta' boy.

 

[K22]

I see it all the time. On line discussions that pretend as if the only two variables are the rifle and the load. There are a few other big ones that can have a big effect on what shows and what does not. First of all, the shooter, all shooters are not created equal. Secondly, the bench, if it wiggles at all, that will tend to enlarge groups in a random manner and obscure the effects of other factors. The rest/ sandbag system....some are a lot better than others, and rife fit matters. The use of some sort of wind indicators, shooting wind blind is not going to give consistent results. Trigger pull can be a major factor, and it is common to have a trigger worked over or replaced on factory rifles. This one mod. can make a huge difference. Back in the day, when all of my shooting was with tuned up Remingtons in various varminting calibers, I could usually tune the rifle and ammunition to beat 3/8" on a good day, and under 1/2" any time that the wind didn't bite me. If you think that you can ignore any factor that matters, that's fine, let me know how that works for you, but if you enjoy doing the best you can with what you can afford, chase down all of these details before you start coming to too many conclusions.

Amen - shooter skill is often ignored - it's taken for granted that it is universally the same (a constant) which of course it isn't even off the bench.

 

[Phil3]

Keep us posted as to your progress, or at least PM me. You have distinguished yourself in one way. You listened, did some investigation, and are willing to try something new. That deserves a big atta' boy.

From what I read here, I expect you, and some others will forget more about precision shooting than I will ever know. One can always learn more, to achieve superior results, and appreciate people's patience with my constant questions. I will be posting results and hopefully useful other information for others to use.

Phil

 

[Shynloco]

Phil,
Thx to my ever questioning Boyd about the things I need to do for improvement shooting off a bench, he has talked me into constructing my very own CHEAP flag poles that are only 4 foot high. I use some left over flat pieces of plywood as the base, drilled a hole in the middle and ran a 1/2 dowel up through it, stuck a hollow piece of tubing or PVC pipe over the portuding wooden dowel and attached the pole to the dowel with a screw. Wrapped some construction tape around the top of the pole and theres my series of flags I set out to see and learn how to read the wind. Sure makes a difference for me, especially when I'm shooting .22's. Just something you might consider.

Alex

 

[Phil3]

I will have to ask the range about their policy on flags. I have never seen them in use there. But, they do have BR matches sometimes and must permit them then. I don't know about non-match days. I can see that load development, even at 100 yards can not be done with any reliable conclusions if the wind is affecting results. And I can see that it would. Fortunately, many days at the range are pretty calm, which gives me some help.

The soil at the range is such where I may be able to just stick the flag post in the ground. I'll see what the range says.

Phil

 

[Tozguy]

Phil,
If you get a chance go to one of the BR matches at your range, you will likely see how important good wind reading skills are to get the most from your ammo and equipment. But this point has already been well made here.
My suggestion is that you enter the shoot and share a bench with someone who sets up wind flags. That way you will learn more quickly than you would by yourself. I predict that you will be welcome and meet some amazing people to boot.

 

[Barlow]

A ton of good advise here. There are a thousand variables (give or take) in the search for accuracy, many have been listed here. Be methodic and keep written record of what you do and how it works. Sinclair has good data books, they are an excellent tool for any handloader. Good luck.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Phil - thought I would load up my "zeroing" groups from my factory Howa in .223. The rifle is bedded, other than that it is a factory Howa in .223. I hand load to the best I can even for factory rifles - it is a huge confidence factor and takes a lot of doubt out if something starts to go off.

In my case I believe the factory rifle is fully capable of using the detailed load prep.

These groups were shot at 100 yards off a Harris "s" bipod and sand bag, lying on the ground...same way I would out varminting. I had already settled on my load and it was a session to zero the rifle.

You can see POI changes - this is because my scope has 1/10th moa (Leupold VXL) clicks and this rifle and load can take full advantage of the 1/10th clicks. Each group represents a POI change as I was clicking for that perfect center which is the final group. Group 3 had one shot out which was me.

Good luck with your shooting.

 

[ar10ar15man]

bottom line to the question..it depends on the rifle.....
all the ammo work in the world will not help a tomato stake....

 

[6BRinNZ]

I guess my point was - I don't do it for the rifle - I do it for the mind set and as a bonus it is possible for factory rifles to take advantage of the prep.

IMO - case prep goes as much to consistency as it does to outright accuracy.

 

[BoydAllen]

Great looking targets. Ducks obviously fully aligned

 

[FroggyOne2]

I agree with Boyd on this one!

 

[Phil3]

Phil - thought I would load up my "zeroing" groups from my factory Howa in .223. The rifle is bedded, other than that it is a factory Howa in .223. I hand load to the best I can even for factory rifles - it is a huge confidence factor and takes a lot of doubt out if something starts to go off.

In my case I believe the factory rifle is fully capable of using the detailed load prep.

These groups were shot at 100 yards off a Harris "s" bipod and sand bag, lying on the ground...same way I would out varminting. I had already settled on my load and it was a session to zero the rifle.

You can see POI changes - this is because my scope has 1/10th moa (Leupold VXL) clicks and this rifle and load can take full advantage of the 1/10th clicks. Each group represents a POI change as I was clicking for that perfect center which is the final group. Group 3 had one shot out which was me.

Good luck with your shooting.

Nice groups! Am excited about my Howa will do once back from the gunsmith (bedding). What load and components did you use? The target shown below was from an AR-15 I built, using one of my first hand loads, shot at 100 yards. New Winchester unfired cases, primer pocket uniformed, flash hole reamed or deburred, trimmed to 1.750", case necks deburred and chamfered, brass sorted into 1.0 grain groups, Sierra MatchKing 53 grain, flat based bullets (#1400), seated to 2.250", Remington 7-1/2 primers, 22.6 grains Vhitavouri N-133 powder. Tools included Forster Co-Ax press and Redding micrometer type bullet seater. Barrel is a Krieger in 1:9" twist.

My daughter appears to outshoot me, but on a Harris bipod and Protektor rear sand bag, she shot the target below (.30" group). Rifle jammed on 5th shot, so just four here. This was her best effort, but given she has almost no shooting experience (< 25 rounds from AR), pretty good I thought, especially since her other targets were not far off from this one. - Phil

 

[6BRinNZ]

Looks like you are going to have to practice hard to beat your Daughter...she is shooting well

In terms of prep I do everything you have listed except weight sort the cases.
Annealing after every firing is the other thing...it is after all still a factory chamber.

A couple of things I do - I mic the loaded rounds and shoot the same loaded neck diameter in a batch. As its a factory chamber I have unturned necks - drove my decision to use Lapua brass - I have assumed a greater level of consistency within a lot...the assumption seems to be paying off. The other thing that I think is important is measuring the base to ogive of each loaded round, more than .001" out from the load development and it is parked...usually means the neck tension, bullet dimension isn't quite the same.
Powder is measured to the granule, bullets sorted for OAL and base to ogive and shot in the same batches...with v-maxes I have a lot of batches.

I use Lapua cases, CCI400 primers, BM2 Powder (I think benchmark is your equivalent) and surprisingly 55 v-max - its a varmint gun. I know of a guy (FMIJ) that shoots a 6br in the 1s and 2s using v-maxes, sometimes they work...wouldn't be my recommended starting point for accuracy work though

I haven't listed my powder charge, as in NZ I seem to be able to run much higher loads than what people talk about on this site; with no problems...possibly something to do with temps - although I'm not entirely convinced we get exactly the same powder.

I also have a Howa chambered in 6br that I shot in FO last season and walked away with some (regional) outright wins out to 900 with it, so the action and consistency is very good IMO. I went the Howa track as my gunsmith reckoned it was an under rated action. I have gone to full custom rigs for target work now as the Howas were setup for varminting.

Good luck, running against your daughter your going to need it by the looks