Decided to have a go at flame annealing?

[Chubbs]

Decided to take the plunge and have a go using the Ugly Annealer. Had the cases in for around 8 seconds on a propane fine single flame. I didn't notice any flame fluctuations so I am sure all case in for the same length of time. All left to air cool. It seems that some have heated up more than others looking at the colour change. Is this normal, the 12 cases that are noticeably different came out in no noticeable order. I just arranged them that way for the photo.
Top photo taken outside in the shade, second in normal daylight out of the shade. Weather slightly over cast.
What are your thoughts?
Cheers chubbs

https://flic.kr/p/2pPMfKK

https://flic.kr/p/2pPMSNH

 

[rijndael]

Looks fine, but looks don't tell you much about hardness.

IME the flame variation is something that happens over the duration of the anneal. For example, was the flame the same size at brass piece 1 as opposed to brass piece 150, that's where I experience it. The flame lessens as bottle pressure drops, which is why a pressure regulator is so handy.

 

[Chubbs]

Looks fine, but looks don't tell you much about hardness.

IME the flame variation is something that happens over the duration of the anneal. For example, was the flame the same size at brass piece 1 as opposed to brass piece 150, that's where I experience it. The flame lessens as bottle pressure drops, which is why a pressure regulator is so handy.

Brand new 400g Propane bottle but no regulator. Mistakenly put butane in original post.

 

[rijndael]

Here's the regulator I used:

Amazon.com

Finding the right adapters / fitting types wasn't easy, but I'm not a plumber either.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Different brass brands equals varied "color" patterns. I can feel when sizing the change in the brass from a good annealing.

 

[jepp2]

All left to air dry.

Why did you need to dry them? Water quenching is totally UN-necessary.

It seems that some have heated up more than others looking at the colour change.

The color change is highly impacted by the starting patina on the case. More highly polished cases can show little or no color change. Those that are more oxidized with show greater color change.

What are your thoughts?

What temperature were you trying to achieve during your annealing? Were you using a temperature indicator like Tempilaq? Or were you watching for color change in a darkened room?

 

[Webster]

Decided to take the plunge and have a go using the Ugly Annealer. Had the cases in for around 8 seconds on a propane fine single flame. I didn't notice any flame fluctuations so I am sure all case in for the same length of time. All left to air dry. It seems that some have heated up more than others looking at the colour change. Is this normal, the 12 cases that are noticeably different came out in no noticeable order. I just arranged them that way for the photo.
Top photo taken outside in the shade, second in normal daylight out of the shade. Weather slightly over cast.
What are your thoughts?
Cheers chubbs

https://flic.kr/p/2pPMfKK

https://flic.kr/p/2pPMSNH

Looks ok to me. I wouldn't worry about hardness variation. So little hardness change takes place it's meaningless. I anneal with a single handheld torch. An accurate GH hunting rifle. Some people tell you to put the very hot tip of the flame on the case. I push the case into the flame so it wraps around the neck for more even heating. The necks get orange colored in about 8 seconds. Some color variation is due to chemical residue left on the cases.

Attached is an annealing chart by the University of Illinois metallurgy Dept. The test was with coupons with various starting cold work and put in a furnace at various times and temperatures. it isn't flash annealing. The poiint is if the hardness only drops a couple of hardness units at a couple minutes at contant temp, they cann't get a hardness drop at a fraction of a second at temp. I heat till the necks are orange. If you squezze the necks with pliers they still have a lot of resistance to move the brass.



My annealing study done at work. Case necks cut off of cases and lowered into a small hole into a lab furnace at various temperatures. I choose 15 seconds because I didn't know how long it took the necks to get to temp. I know it's constant temp but it shows if very little happens at a constant 15 secconds much less can occur flash annealing.

 

[Chubbs]

Different brass brands equals varied "color" patterns. I can feel when sizing the change in the brass from a good annealing.

All the same Lapua brass.

 

[Chubbs]

Why did you need to dry them? Water quenching is totally UN-necessary.

The color change is highly impacted by the starting patina on the case. More highly polished cases can show little or no color change. Those that are more oxidized with show greater color change.


What temperature were you trying to achieve during your annealing? Were you using a temperature indicator like Tempilaq? Or were you watching for color change in a darkened room?

My mistake I meant air cooled.
Temprature was gauged by looking for the change in flame colour just before the case neck started to glow in a darkened room. Flame is mid way down the shoulder.

 

[Intheshop]

Looks good to me.
Annealed some 6mm Rem yesterday with a torch and drill motor which gets put in a swivel vise. Torch is stationary,vise swivels to a "stop"... so the whole distance thing is accurately maintained.

Never have understood shooters dropping $$$ on annealing machines with no apparent? attempt at quantitative analysis. Just saying,here's a cpl pics of equipment used in cast bullet applications.... the black vertical impact tester would be a 5 minute job to convert to a V block system. Just interesting,not busting on any particular group of shooters.

 

[6BRA]

Looks good to me.
Annealed some 6mm Rem yesterday with a torch and drill motor which gets put in a swivel vise. Torch is stationary,vise swivels to a "stop"... so the whole distance thing is accurately maintained.

Never have understood shooters dropping $$$ on annealing machines with no apparent? attempt at quantitative analysis. Just saying,here's a cpl pics of equipment used in cast bullet applications.... the black vertical impact tester would be a 5 minute job to convert to a V block system. Just interesting,not busting on any particular group of shooters.

View attachment 1553137
View attachment 1553138

Amp has miles of literature on high end analysis. AMP make annealing machines. Tons of videos as well.

 

[CharlieNC]

Using a couple of low vs high extremes you noted, seat bullets to see if you can feel a seating force difference. Measure for seating depth, and shoot them to see if the poi changes.

 

[jepp2]

Using a couple of low vs high extremes you noted, seat bullets to see if you can feel a seating force difference.

I was always "concerned" about over annealing brass. Read about how you can make it dead soft, burn off the zinc, etc. So many experts and so many opinions (and they all are widely different). Do you anneal (actually stress relieve) at 750 degrees? Or go to over 1000 degrees to turning red in a dark room? Then I watched this video and Eric's method for measuring bullet seating force.

 

[6BRA]

I was always "concerned" about over annealing brass. Read about how you can make it dead soft, burn off the zinc, etc. So many experts and so many opinions (and they all are widely different). Do you anneal (actually stress relieve) at 750 degrees? Or go to over 1000 degrees to turning red in a dark room? Then I watched this video and Eric's method for measuring bullet seating force.

I've accidentally over annealed on a Bench Source that I have since sold. 6.5 x 47 dual torch at approximately 8 seconds. The case was red below the shoulders. I fired it with a heavy load at 2950 fps. 130 gr. No issues. Consistency is where it is at. Consistent annealing.