Dasher

[Woody]

Is there anyone just loading their Dasher and shooting for fire forming and if so how is that working and what load are you using?

Woody

 

[Bkluke]

I fire form useing 29.0 grains of varget with a 105 grain bullet. I would not recommend loading and shooting, the higher pressures will destroy your brass. :nono:

 

[Woody]

Are you using the expander method and is that the preferred route?

W

 

[flatlander]

Woody, I've fireformed around 1200 Dasher cases with a stout charge of Varget behind 105-107gr. bullets. In an 8-twist bbl., accuracy is pretty good - plenty good enough to clean the NRA MR1 600yd. HP target. As a highpower shooter, and with the high price of bullets today, taking barrel life into consideration, I can't see any reason not to use fireforming loads in competition. If I were not a competitive shooter, I suppose I'd look into using pistol powder and some sort of case filler to form cases.

 

[MikeT]

I used the neck expansion / false shoulder method to prep Lapua brass for a 6BR Improved. I fireformed with 32.5 grs. of Varget behind 105 gr. Amax bullets and shot the rounds in Club matches at 1,000 yards. My best score was 192-7x while fireforming. The 6BR, and its' offspring, are indeed the little cartridges that can.

Mike

 

[Woody]

Flatlander:
So if I understand you correctly, you are just loading and shooting. Not doing the false shoulder method in other words, and doing it like what Gunamonth is talking about.

I am trying to find a good reason to use the false shoulder method,ok, not really) and just load the bullet long and fire away. That is the way I see you should be able to do it.

Woody

 

[Flybuster]

I'd be interested to know, why don't you fireform two batches one False shoulder and one without, and let us know if there is any difference in accuracy between the two batches. I am just guessing that the false shoulder brass will be more conisistant, because you have that crush fit.

 

[memilanuk]

If you dig around over on benchrest.com, I believe alinwa goes over it in some detail. His use of written 'slang' sometimes makes it hard to follow what he's actually saying, but if I understood him correctly... he maintains that the force of the firing pin hitting the primer will strike hard enough to engrave the bullet further into the lands no matter how far out you seat it or how much neck tension you use. Subsequently... the headspace will be fubar'd - some say irretrievably.

Whether or not thats true... I dunno. I'm just starting on my first 'wildcat' w/ a 6 Dasher and I'm using the false-shoulder method as a result. So far it seems to work okay, but I don't have the background to say whether it works *better* than just seating them long and lubing the heck out of the body,so the case can't grab the chamber walls and has to push back directly on the bolt face, and expand out from there).

 

[Flybuster]

Monte, I met ALinWa,Albert) in Portland this weekend, believe it or not he dosn't talk like he write's on BRCentral. We were talking Dasher. He made an interesting comparison to the 6PPC.

He said companies have through the years tried to make 6ppc brass already formed so no fire forming was necessary. It never worked out, for some reason this fire forming process is crucial to the 6ppc accuracy. So people continue to use .220 Russian to form 6ppc, because this works best.

This could be why the 6 Dasher is so phenomenally accurate also.

Interesting observation, anyways. Tanner

 

[memilanuk]

Monte, I met ALinWa,Albert) in Portland this weekend, believe it or not he dosn't talk like he write's on BRCentral.

That's just not right.

There used to be a fellow over on Sniper's Hide that I would have sworn was his long-lost brother...

Anywho, all joking aside, Al's certainly spent more time and effort cogitating on the subject than I, so I would tend to believe him. When my bolt,s) get back from Gre-Tan, I'll continue fire-forming brass for my Dasher using the false shoulder method. I'm starting a 6-6.5x47L project, and the dies happened to come w/ brass already sized all the way down to 6mm. Guess I'll see for myself how that one works out - could be that not being a BR-type shooter I might not be able to tell the difference? We'll see :thumb:

Monte

 

[techshooter]

I use the false shoulder method, with 32 grains IMR4895, CCI450, and a 105BER/107SMK seated back 0.010" from a hard jam. They run about 3025 FPS. I start with a 25 caliber expander, then size down with a 0.267" bushing, allowed to float about 0.010" so that you get a nice crush when chambering. I tested this method against the jam and shoot method, and got much better case length consistency. See my Dasher page here for more info and some statistics on the jam method lengths:

http://www.the-long-family.com/6_dasher.htm

I have no problem going to a match with them, and have found that they shoot more than accurately to do a very good job on the 600 yard F-class target, capable of cleans with 10+ x’s if the wind cooperates,or the shooter is on the ball). They also work great at slaying PDogs at 600 to 1000 yards.

With the fireformed brass, I get 3070 FPS with the 105BER/107SMK class bullet, and even better accuracy. I am of the opinion that the Dasher is the near perfect match to the 6mm bore with the 105/107 bullets. Efficient, and very, very accurate. I have just started working up a load for the 87VMax, and the initial results are promising.

Hope that this helps.

 

[Woody]

Thanks for all the replies.

I went with the load and shoot method. 33gr. of RL15 and the 105 Amax's seated out so that the cartridge would extract when still loaded noting that it was pushing back into the bolt face at that point. Or on my caliper a COL of 2.333" to the tip of the Amax.


I took 35 rounds,that is all the Amax's I had for now) and started barrel break in using 20 rounds then moved over to the 600 yard line and gave her a try,still fire forming)and shot this w/o trying real hard. Not on my good tripod, not with my adapter, etc. It looks like it is going to be a fun one to play with!

More fire forming tonite and playing with recipes. I will post updates as they become available.

Later,

Woody

 

[Woody]

Donovan:

I will do some measuring and report back.

I might try Flybuster's suggestion and try both and see if there is a difference once you go to the "real McCoys". May take me a bit for that experiment as I need the expander.

Thanks,

Woody

 

[Woody]

Donovan:

I put the caliper on 10 out of 35 fire formed cases and the OAL was four at 1.555 and four at 1.557 with one at 1.554 and one at 1.556 . The neck lengths varied upwards of 8 thou and the norm was 4-8 thou on those 10. I shot some recipes this morning at 100 yards and have not had time to measure and see what the "2nd" shooting does, if anything.

These are 4 shot groups and a pic of the Dasher at the range this morning. The Lapua's were .280" and the Berger's were at
.265". I plan on loading both and seeing which one performs best at 600 yards tonite.

Have a great and safe 4th!

Woody

 

[Woody]

Donovan:

I forgot to mention that I did reduce 8 rounds to 30 gr. of RL15
last night fire forming to see what that would do. Those varied from 1.538 to 1.546 in length and with that I just didn't measure neck length. The 33 grains just seems to work good for me.

I still plan on rounding up an expander and trying some brass with that method just to know.

You have done much more shooting at 600 yards and more than I have, which is not much, what are your thoughts/opinion on going from a 8.5x25 Leupold VX3 to a NightForce BR 12-42? If I remember correctly, I saw somewhere around this website that you shoot a NightForce. Anybody elses thoughts/opinions as well are appreciated. Would like some details, etc.

Thanks,

Woody

 

[Woody]

I was interested in knowing what you got out of your brass. That is pretty phenomenal.

I learn something new everyday on this shooting/reloading game and am amazed at the knowledge here on this website. Great resource. Thanks for the help as Lord knows I need it.

I will share the process as things develop on my Dasher. Can never have too much information it seems. Have to start helping a friend with his 6.5x47L soon.

On the NightForce: That is what I was afraid to hear. Start saving my money now the way it sounds. The guy with the 6.5 is putting the little brother,BR 8-32) on his so I have NightForce envy.

Take care,

Woody

 

[Woody]

Donovan and gunamonth:

What do you use for a base with your Nightforce-more specifically are you using one with some MOA. Elevation or MOA adjustment on the 12-42 is what? Will I need it at a 1,000 shooting PD's or paper.

Woody

 

[Woody]

Thanks:

It looks like depending on how the mounting turns out,hoping that it ends up no less than middle) to be on the safe side I might go with one at 10 MOA. I have to start saving my $$ now.....

Woody

 

[Woody]

I was out trying 4 new recipes this morning and I had a four group agg of 3.95" and if you throw out the 6.5" group the 3 group agg. was 3.12". I was trying some VV N140 and that seems to settle things down nicely. The 6.5" and 3.75" group I was still using the RL15, but the last two groups were 3.09" and 2.495" using the VV N140. Two different bullets like the former two groups were as well. I have finally settled on the 105 gr. Lapua Scenar's. It took some shooting to get to the decision as the Bergers were always right there too but I get more consistent groups overall with the Lapua's. Now to order some more.

I was also doing more fire forming but had to quit as I blew primers. New bottle of RL15 is what I believe the culprit is but will know for sure when I get to pull a few bullets and doublecheck my charge.



Woody

 

[Woody]

The load was fine,same as before) when I pulled bullets so I concluded that the different lot of powder was the culprit. Don't have any other ideas anyway as to what would cause the difference. Lowered charge to 31.5 grains and that gave me what I needed. Length of brass seemed fine and no extactor marks and the primer was fine.

Woody