Dakota Arms Chapter 11 - .20 Tactical Brass??

[ErnieB]

Just wondering if anyone has heard if Dakota Arms' financial problems will have any affect on the flow of .20 Tactical brass??

Ernie B
From MD

 

[6BR4U2]

I also "heard" the same thing from a friend that just returned from the nationals in Raton .....

 

[CAB]

We will have the 20 Tactical brass available for sale in the next week or so. We will also have 223, 30-06 and the new 338 Lapua based case,.423) available as well. These are all produced by Lapua to the same exacting specs as the rest of their brass line. I hope to have these priced within a few days.

Chris B.
Graf and Sons

 

[Fireball]

Chris, what we really need is .221FB cases made by Lapua. From these we can do a lot of .221FB based wildcats as well. I always questioned the need for .20 Tactical brass as it is so easy to just fireform .223 brass to obtain it.

 

[Ogre6br]

Chris, what we really need is .221FB cases made by Lapua. From these we can do a lot of .221FB based wildcats as well. I always questioned the need for .20 Tactical brass as it is so easy to just fireform .223 brass to obtain it.

yep my thoughts exactly

 

[CAB]

Maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but I'm not so sure Lapua has a lot of desire to go on with the production of more "niche" brass immediately. If you look at the fact that they are having difficulty making a run of 6.5-284 brass based on the fact that they have to shut down a line that we'll say, just
hypothetically, they produce 308win brass on. You can probably see why they are less than enthusiastic to start a new project. From the Finn's own mouths, I heard, "We do not just set a press up and start running brass on a new caliber, it can sometimes take 1 or 2 years of research to perfect a new draw process." I think we can all attest to the validity of their product development philosophy from the levels of quality they maintain.
Of course, I'm sure there are other issues as well. I won't say that from what I've heard, that they have never considered the 221 brass, I just don't think the timing is the greatest for them right now.

Chris B.
Graf and Sons

 

[Forum Boss]

In talking with Erkki Seikkula, Lapua's export manager, they are open to the idea of producing .221 Fireball or 20 Vartarg, but it comes down to numbers. I asked what would it take to get a new caliber. Erkki said "an initial commitment to 500,000 pieces and an ongoing demand for 250,000+ units per year for a few years." In reply, I said: "bottom line, then, you need to sell a million cases". Erkki replied, "that is realistic."

 

[CAB]

As I said, I don't the desire is very high right now. In the greater scheme of things, those numbers are most probably un-obtainable. I think this is the most polite way for them to say it. I could be wrong,.....

Chris B.
Graf and Sons

 

[Fireball]

Well, I believe Lapua would sell way more .221FB brass than .20 Tactical brass. Making/selling .20 Tactical brass just doesn't make sense to me as it is so easy to form from the easily and cheaply available .223 brass out there. Tons of good, inexpensive .223 cases in the world. Just stick this readily available brass in your .20 Tactical die and go shooting.

.221FB brass is much harder to form. One has to push shoulders back on .222 or .223 cases and then do quite a bit of trimming and in some cases, neckturn.

There are three major rifle makers chambering the .221FB round today, Remington, CZ and Cooper. Dakota also chambers this round. How many chamber the .20 Tactical? Also, with Lapua .221FB brass we could easily form .20 Vartarg and .17 Mach IV cases as well.

Add in that only Remington currently makes .221FB brass, Lapua would in effect have no competition as Remington's .221FB brass is pretty low in quality. There is tons of competition in the .223 case marketplace. Lots and lots of high quality, cheap .223 cases to be found all of which can be easily used to make .20 Tacitcal brass.

I would also tend to think that developing a draw process for the .221FB case would be relatively easy as it is just a shorter .222/.223. Lapua has plenty of experience drawing those two cases.

The .20 Tactical is indeed a niche round. The .221FB is not. Are the numbers there for the .221FB case? I am not sure. But they are definitely not there for the .20 Tactical case.

I know a lot of you already know all of this as we have idscussed it before. But I think it is good for Chris at Graf to hear our feedback.

 

[CAB]

Believe me, the 20 Tac would have probably been one of the last choices for me if I were going out on a limb to manufacture a wildcat case. That being said,.... If you want to make comparisons, remember, these sku's were not originally Lapua's idea to manufacture. They were contracted to produce them. I'm sure you can do the math on that situation. Remember the fact that we have no 6.5/284 in sight until after Sept. This fact alone demonstrates the premium they place on scheduling for their equipment. Right now, they can sell every piece of 6.5mmx47 Lapua brass they can produce,.....I'm pretty sure you can see my point. There is no doubt that the market would support to some degree, the 221 case. Would it to the same degree as the 6.5x47, the 6mmbr, the 308w,.....probably not.
Not to say that it wouldn't be a great item to have in their line, but compromise makes for successful business.
Also,..........One shouldn't forget that Lapua is part of Nammo, who is in turn a huge military production force.