Daily Bulletin - Accuracy vs. Precision

[K22]

Great article. Tiny groups are good, even necessary and of course proves the rifle is "capable."

But the significant test is can you and your rifle hit what your aiming at, on a consistent basis.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That never even crossed my mind until i read about it in bryans book when it came out.

 

[joshb]

I invited an old friend to the range. I brought some of my better guns to shoot with some fresh reloads. He shoots a few 5 shot groups with my custom 223. He stops shooting and says something's wrong. He says that the gun or scope is off because he's aiming at the bullseye but his shots are hitting low left. I look thru my scope and see nice tiny groups right where they should be. I explain to him that everything is fine. I adjust my scope to place shots a little low left so I don't destroy my aiming point on the target. Don't worry, I say, the gun is very accurate, you're shooting small groups and your doing great! He starts shooting again and did very well for the rest of the afternoon. He ends up with a few 3/4" groups but he also printed a few .2 and .3 inch groups. At the end of the day, he's happy and takes his targets home. The next evening, I get a call. He works in the tower of a big airport. Some of his coworkers are exmilitary. Army and Marines. He took his targets to work to show the guy's how well he shot. Evidently, they gave him a hard time about not being able to hit a bull even once in all that shooting and needed to get a better, more "accurate" gun. He tried to explain the size and "precision" of the 5 shot groups and why they were "off" but they weren't buying it. The gun wasn't "accurate"! I told him to meet me at the range on his next day off. When he got there, I had a fresh hundred rounds and the gun set up. I shot a few rounds while adjusting the scope to hit the aim point, then I let him have at it. He shot a bunch of really nice groups into the bulls eye and left with his targets. Next day I get a call. The "guys" agreed that the gun was "accurate" and he had done well.

 

[tmwinds]

I think that is why UBR matches are becoming so popular. To be competitive requires a rifle that is capable of .2-.3 groups but you must hit what you are aiming at while moving from dot to dot on the target.

 

[TRA]

Group is precision. Score is accurate. Some disciplines do not accommodate walking a precision rifle into an "Accurate Score". Especially by allowing unlimited freebies.

 

[LHSmith]

In my opinion the "Holy Grail" of short range accuracy is the IBS Score game where the "X" is a 1/16 MOA dot and if one totally obliterates the dot it is scored an X + WIPEOUT. The 100 yard record to date is a agg score of 250/25x/21 wipeouts. I witnessed that feat in 2006 by Al Weaver at Sulphur Springs Rifle and Pistol Club.
Time has proven that shooting 250/25 x scores in competition come fairly regularly (perhaps 35 to date - with Ken Livengood shooting 3 of them in a month and a half period in 2007), but the WIPEOUT scoring puts it into an order of magnitude more difficulty in achieving.
Also interesting to note is the first shooters to agg 250/25x did it with 6 PPC (Denny Collins was the first (1996) followed by a repeat the year after) whereas in more recent times it has been only done with the .30 Cal.
Remember that in SR Score competition that there are 5 record bulls in each match......meaning you must traverse the target for every record shot. 5 matches x 5 record targets/ match = 25 record targets per agg.

 

[RGRobinett]

Precision will not hamper accurate shot placement, but rather enable it - there is no such thing as too much precision.RG

 

[LHSmith]

Relative to my previous post on Score Competition, IME without a doubt the biggest shooting challenge in SR Benchrest to master is the Hunter Class whereas you are limited to 6x maximum optics, a 10# weight limit (vs. 10.5 for LV and 13.5 for HV), relegating the use of a spotting scope to monitor mirage (and verify shot placement when the eyes start to go south). To me this epitomizes what shortrange BR is all about- it's not only the equipment but visual skills are paramount. And some competitors are that good that they insist on doing it with production rifles (albeit trued and restocked) .....and win.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Relative to my previous post on Score Competition, IME without a doubt the biggest shooting challenge in SR Benchrest to master is the Hunter Class whereas you are limited to 6x maximum optics, a 10# weight limit (vs. 10.5 for LV and 13.5 for HV), relegating the use of a spotting scope to monitor mirage (and verify shot placement when the eyes start to go south). To me this epitomizes what shortrange BR is all about- it's not only the equipment but visual skills are paramount. And some competitors are that good that they insist on doing it with production rifles (albeit trued and restocked) .....and win.

Wish the hunter class was more popular. Ive been shooting br since 1997 and ive yet to see a hunter class match. Its kinda isolated to the northeast i guess

 

[LHSmith]

Wish the hunter class was more popular. Ive been shooting br since 1997 and ive yet to see a hunter class match. Its kinda isolated to the northeast i guess

In the 70's through late '90's (depending on club locale) there were far more Hunter Class shooters than VFS. Today it's exact opposite and some club's don't even draw ANY HC shooters (no shooter points when you don't have any other competitors) so the old timers who still want to compete shoot VFS class rifles. At one time PA had around a dozen clubs holding registered matches, NY had 5 or so, now Pa is down to 7 clubs and NY down to 3.

 

[mikecr]

I can tell you with single cold bore shots, which is what accuracy is defined by -for hunters, precision means nothing at all.
I've had competitive level precision from guns preconditioned to particular ranges, and at least a couple of these same guns were not accurate enough for hunting groundhogs in the field. I've also had very accurate guns, that group no better (consistently) than 3/8 to 1/2 moa. Yet a cold bore shot could be counted on well within 1/4moa of mark.

Much of it has to do with the overall shooting system.
In practice, fixed ranges/conditions, sighters, prefoulers, and warmups before counting shots, serve to render less measure of a system's accuracy capabilities. This, even while there is still variances to consistent components/reloading, wind, mirage, etc.

Will a very precise 6PPC, be accurate with random ranges to 600yds in the field, while every bit of it was defined with single shots?
Better have the right & tested scope for this, load developed off a bipod/field rest & for the present conditions, and click card correct for the conditions(as prior tested).

When someone walks shots into metal at 1500yds, this is not a good demonstration of accuracy.
But if I could see them hit 1/2moa targets on demand at random ranges, say 230yds, 470yds, and 850yds, each with one shot, same shooting system, then IMO this better demonstrates their capabilities to at least those ranges. I suspect few in ELR could do it though..

 

[chkunz]

The challenge of getting high power rifle LEG points is to be able to shoot the National Match Course with no sighters. Ten rounds slow fire standing at 200 yards, ten rounds sitting rapid at 200 yards, ten rounds rapid prone at 300 yards and twenty rounds slow fire prone at 600 yards. No sighters and with wind and all. Place in the top 10% and you get some points. This teaches accuracy and precision as well as reading conditions. It makes better marksmen out of competitors, even those who do not earn the Distinguished Badge.