Custom Hones Forster Full Length Sizing Die

[JaxCatm]

I am already using a Forster FL sizing die and would like to have another one custom honed. Granted I don't have a ton of reloading experience but it just feels like the stock die is working my brass way more then it needs. I measured a loaded case and got .337 around the neck. In theory given all I have read I should be able to subtract .002 from that number and have a die opened up to .335 as a starting point. Guess my real question is about the instructions on Forster's website for this procedure. It says to measure the inside diameter of a fired case and go from there when requesting the amount of material to be removed. Can anyone point me in the right direction for having a custom FL sizing die from Forster made?

 

[JaxCatm]

So I tried a little experiment with the Forster die I have. I pulled the expander ball and ran a piece of brass through. The outside of the neck measured .320 then I put the expander ball back in and the outside diameter came out at .335 that seems like the expander is really putting a whole lot of pressure on my case necks. The expander at the widest point measures .306. Should I have Forster open my die up to .335 and leave the expander button alone?

 

[Martin52]

I recently ordered a 308 FLS die from Forster with a neck honed to 0.3345. Their service was great and the die is extremely smooth in operation. My loaded rounds measure 0.337 - Lapua brass, neck lightly turned and I use a Sierra 2156 projectile. I can certainly recommend Forster. I was previously using one of their standard FLS dies and that was fine, but for the same reasons as yourself, to reduce working the brass, I decided to go the honed neck route. Try it, you won't look back. Good value too.
Martin

 

[CatShooter]

I am already using a Forster FL sizing die and would like to have another one custom honed. Granted I don't have a ton of reloading experience but it just feels like the stock die is working my brass way more then it needs. I measured a loaded case and got .337 around the neck. In theory given all I have read I should be able to subtract .002 from that number and have a die opened up to .335 as a starting point. Guess my real question is about the instructions on Forster's website for this procedure. It says to measure the inside diameter of a fired case and go from there when requesting the amount of material to be removed. Can anyone point me in the right direction for having a custom FL sizing die from Forster made?

The instructions are NOT referring to measuring the inside of the neck of a fired case - they are referring to the inside of the neck of the die...

"CUSTOM neck honing of Forster FULL LENGTH SIZING or NECK SIZING DIE to your specification. We custom hone the inside neck diameter by using a diamond stoning process. We enlarge the inside diameter to prevent over-sizing of the case neck due to thick neck walls. You may require this service for two reasons: 1) If you use some brands of brass cases, such as Norma or Lapua, which have thicker neck walls. 2) If you do not intend to outside neck turn case necks that have thickened after repeated firings. Please specify desired inside neck diameter. Note: 1) No more than .008" stock" removal from your existing die neck diameter is possible. 2) Honing is done in increments of one half thousandth of an inch (.0005"), meaning that your specified inside diameter must be either.XXX0" or .XXX5". "

... one could say the instructions could be worded a little better, but they do NOT ask that you measure the inside of a fired case.

As to the expander button, most shooters just leave it out and don't expand... the die will bring the case neck to the size you need to load.

 

[CatShooter]

The outside of the neck measured .320 then I put the expander ball back in and the outside diameter came out at .335 that seems like the expander is really putting a whole lot of pressure on my case necks.

That doesn't sound quite right. If your fired case is around 0.339" and the die is necking it down to 0.320" it seems like way too much. And then expanding it by 0.015"? Seems it would be really hard on the neck. I haven't used "regular" FL dies for a very long time but it still seems excessive.

Forster will hone the neck to the dimension you want but only to a point. If the neck of your die is 0.320" they will open it to a maximum of 0.328" according to their literature. Still a long way from the 0.335" final diameter. I had a set of three Forster 6 BR dies honed in half thousandth steps of 0.2670", 0.2675" and 0.2680" and the 0.2680" doesn't even touch the expander button with the "Blue Box" brass.

Link to their page about this:

http://www.forsterproducts.com/store.asp?pid=30223&catid=19938

When a die sizes the neck "excessively", the neck overshoots the size of the die neck. If your fired case is 0.400, and you run the neck through a die that is 0.388, the neck of the case will come out somewhere around 0.382 +/-, because the brass "keeps on going"

I ran into this some years back with a 1,000 yard match rifle in 300 WM. When I ran them into a Redding bushing die, with the "proper die" (-0.002"), the case necks were so small that the same bushing would loosely rattle in the case neck.

I spoke with Redding about this for a week - they said it was impossible - and they finely got beck to me and agreed that it happened on "large sizing excursions"... they write about it now on their website.

Go here:

http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips

And click on "Bushing Selection"

Near the bottom of that page, it says...

"It has come to our attention through customer calls and our own use of the bushing style sizing dies that in certain instances, a given neck sizing bushing will produce a case neck diameter that can be several thousandths of an inch smaller than the actual diameter of the bushing. This idiosyncrasy occurs when the neck diameter of the fired case is a great deal larger than the diameter of the neck sizing bushing, such as occurs when factory chambers are on the large side of the tolerance range and the brass is on the thin side. Typically, we have not noticed any problems until the case neck is reduced more than 0.008-0.010"."

This is what is happening to your cases.

So, don't worry (be Happy) and send your die to Forster, and ask for a 0.335 (or whatever size you want) neck.

If on the odd chance that the die is defective (which I doubt) then Forster will replace the die - you WILL get a die with the neck that you want!

 

[JaxCatm]

Well unfortunately I'm at a total loss as to whether it is worth having my die honed at all or just starting over with a bushing die and sizing in two steps. I measured fired cases to see if my chamber was cut on the large side. The fired unsized cases measure .3435 at the neck. Not a huge shock since the rifle was built to shoot M118 LR in dirty conditions. My fear is even if I have a die opened up to .3350 it will still work the hell out of my brass and cause problems. I am thankful for the advice and lesson in paying attention when I read. If anyone has further advice please feel free to offer it up.

 

[Martin52]

Jaxcatm,

You said your loaded round measures 0.337 and a fired case measures 0.3435.

If you order a Forster FLS die with a neck honed to 0.335 that will provide you about 2 thou neck tension assuming you use the same projectile and same case. I do not know if you are neck turning, if you are then all case necks should be turned to same case neck thickness as the case used for the loaded round measuring 0.337. Sounds like you're using Lapua brass, their necks are generally thicker than Win or Rem cases.

The Forster FLS non bushing die will also allow you to size new cases and neck turn - which you cannot do with a bushing die because the bushing does not allow the neck to be sized right to the junction with the shoulder and will increase the risk of a doughnut forming inside fired cases.

Based on your measurements I would order a Forster FLS die with neck honed to around 0.335 depending on how much neck tension you seek.

Martin

 

[sbrabec]

I have 3 dies honed from Forster and they work great for my 6br. Now keep it mind that when you resize your brass it will spring back some. If you were to use a die that is honed .335 it would probaly measure .336-.3365 depending on spring back(usally about .001-.0015). Keep that in mind when you order, if you want .002 neck tension you may want to start with a .334. Also as someone already stated if your neck thickness is not consistant you may consider neck turning even if it just to clean up about 60% of the neck. Good luck and good shooting...
Scott

 

[CatShooter]

If the neck of your fired case measures 0.3435", and your sized case is 0.320, then...

The neck diameter of your die (currently) measures 0.327"-0.328", so the case is overshooting the die neck by ~0.008"

Having Forster hone the neck is a doable thing, and a whole damn lot cheaper than buying a bushing neck die and two bushings.

Get the die honed to 2 thou under and enjoy.

 

[JaxCatm]

Thanks for all the advice! Funny I sent the die off to be opened up to .3350 about two hours ago. I'll post with results in a couple of weeks. As for the brass I am using Nosler Custom and Federal GMM brass. The rifle is a FN SPR A3G so I'm thinking being built to withstand military and law enforcement duty they cut the chamber neck oversized for reliable operation. The again I'm not a gunsmith just another trigger actuator nut

 

[Hondo64d]

I normally go .004" less than the loaded round to allow for spring-back, but .003" less might be ok. The way I see it, if I leave the neck a little small, it's not squeezing the neck nearly as much as it was in it's factory form, and if I have to use the expander ball, it is not having to move the brass nearly as much. It's still a big improvement.

John