Custom die possibilities and reasonable expectations?

[thefitter]

I need help understanding custom dies and whats possible to specify when ordering them.

Quick back ground for his project- 7MM RSAUM was giving me stiff bolt lift after a couple of firings. After trial and error and discussion with more knowledgeable individuals it was determined that I was not sizing far enough down the base of the case. On someones recommendation I made a ring die and solved the issue by sizing the base just above the web after each firing. The thing was that this added a extra step to the process so after more discussion and thought, I decided to order a custom FL sizing die to eliminate the extra step of the ring die. After talking with a couple of custom die makers and discussing what I needed, which was to size the body .002 proportionally all the way to just above the web, I sent off 3 fired cases and my reamer print.

3 months later I received the die. Problem was that it did not size the base of the case at all. So I sent it back with 3 more fired cases and reiterated in a a letter and on the phone that I needed the die to size the body .002 proportionally all the way to the web. I was told that a new die would be made.

Well after 3 more months I get the die back and again it does not size the base of the case at all. And now if I set it to touch the shell holder it collapses the shoulder inwards. If I had to speculate I'd say they just took some off the bottom of the original die hoping it would get lower on the case. There were two cases returned marked "sized" but they measure the same at the base of the case as when I sent them.

I don't think that I'm asking for the world and I specifically asked if this was possible prior to ordering the die. It is possible right? I feel a little bad about sending this back again and trying a different die maker, but I've wasted over six months trying to get this done.

Thanks

 

[Chappy]

If these aren't whidden dies, then send John some fired cases. He'll get everything right for you.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Every die maker makes mistakes and not seeing how far its going down it may be all they can do. It sounds like the excessive runout in your chamber may be more to blame and as long as you use that barrel you may just be a ring die man.

 

[thefitter]

Every die maker makes mistakes and not seeing how far its going down it may be all they can do. It sounds like the excessive runout in your chamber may be more to blame and as long as you use that barrel you may just be a ring die man.

Runout in my chamber? How would that prevent someone from machining a die to certain dimensions?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If your chamber isnt right due to excessive runout at the case head or too much bolt nose spacing or a bad bevel at the entrance to the chamber the shellholder will keep the die from getting down that far

 

[NWnewguy]

I have to kind of agree with the OP. If you send three fired cases and ask for it to be able to size the web of the case, it should do just that when you get it back. I can't see how the chamber could have much to do with making a die from the fired cases. The die should match the chamber, whether it be "oversized" or not. Now if the need arises to turn down the shell holder a bit to get the die down there, that should easily fall within the capabilities of a die maker and he should pass this small expense on the the consumer.

 

[LHSmith]

Did you start over with new brass each time you received a new resizer?
Was the brass fully fireformed before you sent it out?
0.002" seems way to much. In his book "Extreme Rifle Accuracy", Mike Ratigan states "After the brass is up to full size, reducing the length and body diameter by about 0.0005" is all that is required.Again, all that is required is to push the shoulder back and reduce the diameter of the shoulder and the base of the case about 1/2 of one thousandths."
He goes on to state a few reasons why brass tightens up: soft lot of brass, hot load (at least for THAT lot of brass), action lugs/bolt lugs out of square, action stretch in front between barrel,quirky burn characteristics of some powders and lots of powders.

 

[thefitter]

If your chamber isnt right due to excessive runout at the case head or too much bolt nose spacing or a bad bevel at the entrance to the chamber the shellholder will keep the die from getting down that far

As I said in the OP if I turn the die down to just touching the shell holder it collapses the shoulder inwards, which I have never seen a die do before.

 

[thefitter]

Did you start over with new brass each time you received a new resizer?
Was the brass fully fireformed before you sent it out?
0.002" seems way to much. In his book "Extreme Rifle Accuracy", Mike Ratigan states "After the brass is up to full size, reducing the length and body diameter by about 0.0005" is all that is required.Again, all that is required is to push the shoulder back and reduce the diameter of the shoulder and the base of the case about 1/2 of one thousandths."
He goes on to state a few reasons why brass tightens up: soft lot of brass, hot load (at least for THAT lot of brass), action lugs/bolt lugs out of square, action stretch in front between barrel,quirky burn characteristics of some powders and lots of powders.

When I discussed what was needed by the different die manufacturers to have a custom die made I was told to send in brass that had been fired 3 times without sizing. So I did that with 10 new cases. These are the cases I have been using.

Also when I discussed having a custom die made I asked what was the normal body dimensions that they were made too. The answer from multiple die makers was .0015 - .002 below a fired case. After trial and error with the ring die I settled on .002 for my application and caliber.

I had eliminated the soft brass hot load possibility at the start. And I doubt if there is anything wrong with the chamber, bolt or lugs. In my research I have read others having similar issues with this type of cartridge.

 

[wwbrown]

From you ring die you know how much sizing is needed, so maybe instead of sending the a die maker three cases and telling him how much to size the base send the ring in with the brass so he can duplicate that on the sizing die.

 

[thefitter]

From you ring die you know how much sizing is needed, so maybe instead of sending the a die maker three cases and telling him how much to size the base send the ring in with the brass so he can duplicate that on the sizing die.

You know I had thought about sending in brass that I sized with the ring die as a comparison.