Curtis axiom action
- Thread starter Rockchuck
- Start date
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
Thi s does not apply to the Curtis in particular, but I think all actions machined from 416 are a step down from those machined from 17-4 or Chrome Moly.
I have had two actions machined from 416, and neither would handle the pressures that a 17-4 or Chrome Moly Action would.
This was exhibited in a consistent tight bolt lift when shooting in the upper load window.
It is simply a matter of strength.
Action manufactures use 416 because of it‘s machinability while being of adequate strength for the SAAMI spec loads.
I have had two actions machined from 416, and neither would handle the pressures that a 17-4 or Chrome Moly Action would.
This was exhibited in a consistent tight bolt lift when shooting in the upper load window.
It is simply a matter of strength.
Action manufactures use 416 because of it‘s machinability while being of adequate strength for the SAAMI spec loads.
The one draw back to 17-4 is it's propensity to gall. If the heat treat is not correct between bolt and action it will get ugly fast.
Paul
Paul
kindabitey
Gold $$ Contributor
I've had two. Had being the key word. The first was purchased before the big "falling out", and had no problems. The second had a nasty burr on the action lug causing a gouge in the brass. After 4 phone calls and 5 emails going unanswered, I fixed it myself and sold both of them.
Just my personal experience, YMMV.
Just my personal experience, YMMV.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
I waited almost a year on a Lapua size Axiom. Joel Russo kept promising it would be “delivered soon” many times. Never got anything and finally pulled the plug. Had a dirtbag attitude when asked what was going on. Then I found out Curtis doesn’t even make their own actions but they don’t want people to know that. They try to act like they make them but they have a 3rd party machine shop do it. I personally will never give them business after my horrible experience with the constant lies and broken promises. Way too many other great affordable action options out there from companies that won’t give you a ton of headache.
wow that’s crazy. I’ve dealt with Joel (not while with Curtis) on multiple occasions and received some of the best customer service in the Industry! I’d highly recommend terminus not only due to the action but because of the way Joel goes out of the way to help anyone.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
I think he was getting frustrated that he was at the mercy of the 3rd party machine shop and they had him by the short and curlys but didn’t want to admit it. Still, shouldn’t have been lying about the status and BSing everyone into preorders then failing to deliver. Don’t lie to people and they will usually understand and not have any problems with waiting as long as needed. I know I would have been fine with the situation if he would have just been straight with me.
The guy who sells the TL control feed actions is great. He straight tells people he has them made by a 3rd party and keeps everyone updated on statuses. No beating around the bush or trying to pull wool over peoples eyes
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jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
We have found at the highest ductility states such as H1150, which will yield around 28 RC, there is a great propensity for 17-4 to gall.
However, at H1050, the anti gall properties are greatly enhanced. Depending on the exact alloy content, that will generally yield a RC hardness of 36.
a few years ago, we made some large 3.5 inch diameter x 10 inch long body fit palm bolts for a large harbor tug rudder. The bill of material called for Aquamet 17, which is basically cold worked 17-4 at H1150 age hardening. We told them they would gall as they presses them in. We machined a sample, and sure enough, about 1/2 way in It seized.
We took the remaining blanks to Lone Star Heat Treating and had them age hardened at 1050 degrees for 4 hours. Problem solved.m
H1050 combined with a Crome Moly bolt at 38 RC, there is little fear that a 17-4 4 action will gall if properly maintained.
i think those are pretty close to the numbers Bat uses.
I had a Curtis vector. It was a great, Joel was always helpful but the first batch did get pushed back quite a bit. Joel was never rude to me in any way, but I did very much dislike the constant push backs.
It was the most resistant to binding the bolt of any action I’ve owned, it also was well timed to a triggertech out of the box.
Long story short I liked my Curtis. I never communicated with chase, so I’m not sure if I would or would not buy another. With builds since I’ve moved to tikka for tactical stuff and defiance/bat for the other, but not because I disliked my Curtis in any way.
It was the most resistant to binding the bolt of any action I’ve owned, it also was well timed to a triggertech out of the box.
Long story short I liked my Curtis. I never communicated with chase, so I’m not sure if I would or would not buy another. With builds since I’ve moved to tikka for tactical stuff and defiance/bat for the other, but not because I disliked my Curtis in any way.
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
I've worked with Chase exclusively for the last several years when I needed his actions with no fallout or problems. He answers the phone and emails as his schedule allows which has been more than adequate for my schedule.
The actions I purchased fulfilled mine and the clients needs without flaws. It's Chase's design and that's what I'm buying.
And I have to be honest, after working with several hundred actions a year from various manufacturers, I have not found anything which was a problem that was missed in quality control from any of them. I think there was one time I got a bolt with the wrong bolt face diameter, an oversight I'm sure (not Curtis). Called and it was straightened out immediately.
And as a closing thought, be sure to run a check of the gunsmiths who buy actions private labeled for them by an original manufacturer. I also know several companies which have actions manufactured by private machine shops. I know for a fact that at least 3 primary action makers private label for several other companies each. Quite frankly it doesn't really matter to me who makes the actions as long as the design is what I want and the quality is what I expect.
The actions I purchased fulfilled mine and the clients needs without flaws. It's Chase's design and that's what I'm buying.
And I have to be honest, after working with several hundred actions a year from various manufacturers, I have not found anything which was a problem that was missed in quality control from any of them. I think there was one time I got a bolt with the wrong bolt face diameter, an oversight I'm sure (not Curtis). Called and it was straightened out immediately.
And as a closing thought, be sure to run a check of the gunsmiths who buy actions private labeled for them by an original manufacturer. I also know several companies which have actions manufactured by private machine shops. I know for a fact that at least 3 primary action makers private label for several other companies each. Quite frankly it doesn't really matter to me who makes the actions as long as the design is what I want and the quality is what I expect.
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
And so does Stiller and a few more. Some will admit it, others shy away from saying. There's always exceptions especially when you make thousands of actions instead of a few hundred. It's expected. It makes no difference to me as long as the design and quality match my expectations. You might disagree and that's your right.
Have a good evening.
Have a good evening.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
So are you saying stiller uses a third party machine shop for their actions or theyre the third party for other mfrs?And so does Stiller and a few more. Some will admit it, others shy away from saying. There's always exceptions especially when you make thousands of actions instead of a few hundred. It's expected. It makes no difference to me as long as the design and quality match my expectations. You might disagree and that's your right.
Have a good evening.
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
Stiller manufacturers for other companies. Without the previous comments, it is out of context, sorry.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Yes just making sure we knew stiller pf is the mfr for lots of other makers. Gotta keep the search archives correct if somebody is lookin someday
Several years ago I had exactly the same experience you detailed in your post. Excuses and broken promises went on for a little over a year and I finally gave up on buying a Curtis Action and purchased a different brand action.
kindabitey
Gold $$ Contributor
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
Do yourself a favor and buy a Terminus Action instead. They are everything the Curtis was supposed to be and customer service is second to none.
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