Crooked action

[Bogusname]

Any of you re-barreled a savage and the receiver threads were so crooked only one side touched the shoulder of new barrel?
Recoil lug was replaced because there was .013 difference between top and bottom. Receiver face had a big dent in it too. Got all that cleaned up and redid the barrel tenon and I could still see daylight through one side of shoulder/receiver surface. Recut the threads and redid the tenon again ( now larger of course ) and now it fits like it’s supposed to. He wanted to do away with barrel nut so that was never an issue. I’ve barreled several savages and never actually had one you could see so apparent. Replaced lots of terrible lugs but that’s about it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Don't worry too much with thread fit but get the action face and the barrel shoulder perpendicular to their bores, respectively. The only way the thread fit matters is if it's too tight or too far out to allow the bbl and action to accommodate each other squarely without undue stress. Thread fits ALWAYS" introduce misalignment and there is no plausible way around it. But, they should serve the simple job of pulling two square surfaces together. They have to be too tight or WAY out of alignment to prevent those squared up surfaces from butting up nicely. Remember, they CAN'T POSSIBLY BE PERFECTLY PERPEDICULAR TO THE BORE OR RACEWAY", EVEN IN A "PERFECT WORLD. So, don't spend too much time trying to correct an "inevitable" misalignment with a 60° vee thread. Focus on clearance at the threads that allows the critical surfaces to mate relatively stress free.

 

[DaveTooley]

Don't worry too much with thread fit but get the action face and the barrel shoulder perpendicular to their bores, respectively. The only way the thread fit matters is if it's too tight or too far out to allow the bbl and action to accommodate each other squarely without undue stress. Thread fits ALWAYS" introduce misalignment and there is no plausible way around it. But, they should serve the simple job of pulling two square surfaces together. They have to be too tight or WAY out of alignment to prevent those squared up surfaces from butting up nicely. Remember, they CAN'T POSSIBLY BE PERFECTLY PERPEDICULAR TO THE BORE OR RACEWAY", EVEN IN A "PERFECT WORLD. So, don't spend too much time trying to correct an "inevitable" misalignment with a 60° vee thread. Focus on clearance at the threads that allows the critical surfaces to mate relatively stress free.

What Mike said.
Loose threads mean square shoulder lock up. Tight fitting threads never ever made a rifle shoot better.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

There's an NZ expression - "Been there - done that" and paid for it! There comes a time when one learns that the Remington/Savage ilk are a waste of time and money and that it's cheaper in the long run to buy a decent action that already has straight threads and a flat receiver face. At the "factory" end of rifles - well, Tikka and Sako can do a good job and factories like the Italian Vitrix can turn out a rifle to equal custom firearms, but at the same price as a custom job.
Before you hate me tooo much - I have a Savage, currently being built in 6SLR - it was a 223 that shot reasonably well - but the threads had to be squared up and the action faced etc, so forget "prefit" barrels, unless the action has been machined first.

 

[Bogusname]

It was for a customer. I was just kind of shocked at how crooked they were. I could have cut very loose threads and it would have still been crooked.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I do worry about the threads and the action face running truly straight and square with each other.

we depend on a well machined joint to align every thing radial As well as provide a square surface to tighten the joint into proper tension. When you torque a thread and shoulder that are not correct, it puts the entire joint in deflection.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

This depends on the kind of rifle your building. I would not be ok with something like that in a competition rifle. You dont want to leave anything on the table there. I mean crooked threads, not that I want to fit them tight. I agree with the posts above, I dont like tight threads.
I did a barrel job for a local guy years ago who had a sporterized 1903 Springfield. They use a square thread. Even with a relatively loose fit the shoulder would not square up. I had to fit that thread so loose to get that shoulder to fit up I decided to never do another one of those again. He brought back targets that were an honest 1/2 moa for 5 shots from the first range trip, and there were no doubt other issues with the rifle.
What I am saying is that at some point everything matters but threads are way way down the list.

 

[Edd]

How is loose or tight defined?

I have barrels that screw on easily by hand but have a snug thread fit. The flat surfaces on the action and barrel mate up fine.

I don't want to need tools to screw them together but if someone threaded a barrel for me and the threads were loose, by my definition, I would scrap it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

How is loose or tight defined?

I have barrels that screw on easily by hand but have a snug thread fit. The flat surfaces on the action and barrel mate up fine.

I don't want to need tools to screw them together but if someone threaded a barrel for me and the threads were loose, by my definition, I would scrap it.

Threads have very specific classes of fit. A class 2 fit is a good, no frills, no problems fit. The issue is not making a bbl thread that is correct and to proper dimensions per class. The problem is determining the specs for the previously threaded receiver. Most smiths thread to fit or to a spec given by the action maker. Good luck getting that info from someone like Savage, though. Plug gauges for non standard threads get really expensive when there are three classes and numerous sizes. It's a good idea to make some plug gauges for various actions that you run across but everything has tolerances so it's usually based on feel, but yes, there are specs and classes of fit for threads. Class 1 is loosest and class 3 is tightest.
I have a drawer full of barrel cutoffs for various actions that I know are a good fit. I can take measurements off of those, including pitch diameter and use those specs for most actions, similar to how I'd do if you send me a properly fitted barrel..I can just duplicate that.

 

[jackieschmidt]

How is loose or tight defined?

I have barrels that screw on easily by hand but have a snug thread fit. The flat surfaces on the action and barrel mate up fine.

I don't want to need tools to screw them together but if someone threaded a barrel for me and the threads were loose, by my definition, I would scrap it.

Again, just my opinion looking at things purely from a machinist point of view.
The actual fit of the thread is not nearly as important as it being truly straight and square with the barrel shoulder.

in applications such as the Savage that use a jam nut, the face of the action in a since becomes the barrel shoulder.

in these applications, the action face and threads should be truly straight and square, and the nut’s threads should be truly straight and square with the face of the nut.

 

[tobnpr]

Don't worry too much with thread fit but get the action face and the barrel shoulder perpendicular to their bores, respectively.

This.
I use a piloted receiver tap (not oversize) to re-cut the threads perpendicular to the bore.
As you say, it opens them up a tiny bit but it's inconsequential and ensures the thread fit can't bind enough to prevent correct alignment of the barrel shoulder and receiver ring. JMO.

 

[Will Henry]

In 1978 I ordered a Shilen DGA action. When I tried to install the barrel, it ended up with a .006" gap on one side of the barrel shoulder. I called Shilen and a replacement was sent. A Model 70 Winchester Classic I worked on about twenty years ago was just as bad. WH