Cronus BTR 4.5-29x 56mm From Athlon Optics

[hogan]

Well, I received the Athlon Flagship scope today by Priority mail. From there I went to our local airfield as I had a couple of Spotting Scopes I wanted to test for optical quality at distance. I had a decent Velbon medium weight tripod with wide platform which was usable for the Newest Athlon as well. Had my Nikon Monarch rangefinder which is good to 800yds. Beautiful day in Alaska. The scopes, both 60mm Japanese were very good in terms of resolution at distance close to 1000yds. After concluding the spotting scope testing, I opened the parcel and got my first look at the Athlon Flagship, 4.5-29x 56mm 34mm tubed Cronus BTR.

Wow Is the only adjective that really works here. To preface this remark, I have owned a NightForce NXS 8-32x 56mm, a Zeiss 1.5-6x Diatal, an NF NXS 2.5-10x 24mm, an IOR 2-12x 32mm, and a Leupold mk4 16x m1. Was not too impressed with the weight of the 8-32x NXS or the optical rendition. I decided that for my needs the Leupold Mk4 4.5-14x 50mm TMR Illum was about as good as I needed for precision shooting. Mainly, because it weighed half what the 8-32 NXS did and was close enough in terms of optical quality. It may also help that I have 15/20 vision and a photographic background so know a bit about optical rendition, quality and contrast.

But this $1800 Athlon is Exceptional. It's relatively compact at 14" in terms of overall length from extended ocular to outer rim of the Objective. Pretty light at 35oz for the Super-Quality lens system and its very durable tactical build. Elevation turret has 33mil of range and has integral zero-stop you can set. 18mil of windage. Lots of fine-focus adjustment on the ocular. 11 settings for illuminated reticle and each click between settings turns Off the illum. Takes 2032 battery, no oddball sizes. Even the battery compartment and lid is well thought-out. Press battery in to retain it, then easily fasten the lid. Did I mention the battery, illum dial and the side-focus parallax are all on the same turret? Parallax is marked from 25yds to 1600, and then there's infinity....

The reticle is excellent for holdovers or dialing. Kind of like a Horus reticle but less busy. FFP, of course!

Athlon scopes do track. Even the $300 Talos BTR I've got will track a box test using boresighter/collimator right to the mark each time. This is the only Athlon scope entirely made in Japan. These are built by Light Optical Works and that spells Quality in large capitals. The soon to premier Athlon Ares series will feature LOW lenses and all internals assembled in Athlon's Chinese mfg facility. They will be real bargains...

Later this week I should receive my first 34mm mount set. I am going with Aero Precision as this scope will be used on GA Precision AR-10(T) and several other Pic rail bolt guns. One benefit of the Athlon design is a full 2" front tube section and full 2.5" rear tube section for mounting the optic. Many scopes in this Great Glass category have much less capacity for mounting just where you need it. To be clear; the scope is built from a 1pc heavy aluminum tube and has lots of room for versatile mounting no matter the rifle style or type.

The magnification dial is very smooth but requires a bit of effort. Same with the parallax knob, smooth but requires deliberation. With the First Focal Plane hashmark reticle you can range at any magnification and you get a full 10 mil-rad on each quadrant of the reticle. I will admit to never having used anything more ambitious than the Leupold TMR reticle, but the Cronus BTR APRS reticle is confidence inspiring. The Horus xmas tree style with dots goes quarter mil spacing with 1 mil spacing across at first mil down, then 2 mils each side from 2-4 mils down, then 3 mils from 5-7 mils down, and finally 4 mil spacing from 8-10 mils down. Not very cluttered, easy to see. The entire hash mil reticle is illuminated. The other 3 stadia are maked in 1/4 hash with taller hash on the full mil value. Even Mil values are numbered from 2 to 8. The heavy stadia lines (about like a wide duplex) represent 10mils at their very end. There is a full mil gap from the 9th mil to the 10th. There is also a gap between the tiny central cross hair and mil hash 1.

Snow is about gone here. Down to only 2' in my yard and out in the woods. This time of year it goes quick. Our 1000yd range opens in a few weeks and as soon as the muddy muck has dried up it will be shooting time.

More info to follow once the mount set arrives. in term of optical Quality and rendition; just WOW!

 

[rap36case]

Well, I received the Athlon Flagship scope today by Priority mail. From there I went to our local airfield as I had a couple of Spotting Scopes I wanted to test for optical quality at distance. I had a decent Velbon medium weight tripod with wide platform which was usable for the Newest Athlon as well. Had my Nikon Monarch rangefinder which is good to 800yds. Beautiful day in Alaska. The scopes, both 60mm Japanese were very good in terms of resolution at distance close to 1000yds. After concluding the spotting scope testing, I opened the parcel and got my first look at the Athlon Flagship, 4.5-29x 56mm 34mm tubed Cronus BTR.

Wow Is the only adjective that really works here. To preface this remark, I have owned a NightForce NXS 8-32x 56mm, a Zeiss 1.5-6x Diatal, an NF NXS 2.5-10x 24mm, an IOR 2-12x 32mm, and a Leupold mk4 16x m1. Was not too impressed with the weight of the 8-32x NXS or the optical rendition. I decided that for my needs the Leupold Mk4 4.5-14x 50mm TMR Illum was about as good as I needed for precision shooting. Mainly, because it weighed half what the 8-32 NXS did and was close enough in terms of optical quality. It may also help that I have 15/20 vision and a photographic background so know a bit about optical rendition, quality and contrast.

But this $1800 Athlon is Exceptional. It's relatively compact at 14" in terms of overall length from extended ocular to outer rim of the Objective. Pretty light at 35oz for the Super-Quality lens system and its very durable tactical build. Elevation turret has 33mil of range and has integral zero-stop you can set. 18mil of windage. Lots of fine-focus adjustment on the ocular. 11 settings for illuminated reticle and each click between settings turns Off the illum. Takes 2032 battery, no oddball sizes. Even the battery compartment and lid is well thought-out. Press battery in to retain it, then easily fasten the lid. Did I mention the battery, illum dial and the side-focus parallax are all on the same turret? Parallax is marked from 25yds to 1600, and then there's infinity....

The reticle is excellent for holdovers or dialing. Kind of like a Horus reticle but less busy. FFP, of course!

Athlon scopes do track. Even the $300 Talos BTR I've got will track a box test using boresighter/collimator right to the mark each time. This is the only Athlon scope entirely made in Japan. These are built by Light Optical Works and that spells Quality in large capitals. The soon to premier Athlon Ares series will feature LOW lenses and all internals assembled in Athlon's Chinese mfg facility. They will be real bargains...

Later this week I should receive my first 34mm mount set. I am going with Aero Precision as this scope will be used on GA Precision AR-10(T) and several other Pic rail bolt guns. One benefit of the Athlon design is a full 2" front tube section and full 2.5" rear tube section for mounting the optic. Many scopes in this Great Glass category have much less capacity for mounting just where you need it. To be clear; the scope is built from a 1pc heavy aluminum tube and has lots of room for versatile mounting no matter the rifle style or type.

The magnification dial is very smooth but requires a bit of effort. Same with the parallax knob, smooth but requires deliberation. With the First Focal Plane hashmark reticle you can range at any magnification and you get a full 10 mil-rad on each quadrant of the reticle. I will admit to never having used anything more ambitious than the Leupold TMR reticle, but the Cronus BTR APRS reticle is confidence inspiring. The Horus xmas tree style with dots goes quarter mil spacing with 1 mil spacing across at first mil down, then 2 mils each side from 2-4 mils down, then 3 mils from 5-7 mils down, and finally 4 mil spacing from 8-10 mils down. Not very cluttered, easy to see. The entire hash mil reticle is illuminated. The other 3 stadia are maked in 1/4 hash with taller hash on the full mil value. Even Mil values are numbered from 2 to 8. The heavy stadia lines (about like a wide duplex) represent 10mils at their very end. There is a full mil gap from the 9th mil to the 10th. There is also a gap between the tiny central cross hair and mil hash 1.

Snow is about gone here. Down to only 2' in my yard and out in the woods. This time of year it goes quick. Our 1000yd range opens in a few weeks and as soon as the muddy muck has dried up it will be shooting time.

More info to follow once the mount set arrives. in term of optical Quality and rendition; just WOW!

 

[rap36case]

I will get one of these for my next build! I want to create an AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor and obtain 0.5MOA or better. This scope would match the capability of the new reload with Lapua small primer brass and work well in the magazine. Thanks!

 

[hogan]

From the Athlon Argos thread, comment posted a short wihile ago...

More info...

Yesterday, took Cronus BTR, and both Argos Mil-Rad scopes 8-34x 56mm and 6-24x 50mm to local airfield. The Cronus BTR, as may be expected, IS Very Capable. From my tripod position next to runway, I had 1120yards of precision enabling track. Both Argos show excellent and accurate color rendition and sharpness/accuity. However, The Cronus XTR optics are truly amazing! The treeline at 1300yds was crisp and super-defined. Talking small diameter sapplings and even a neighborhood sized power-line at least another 100yds out. Talking 1400yds and crisp 1" dia wire.

The Argos are exceptional in glass quality out to about 1200yds, but the Cronus BTR and high quality 60mm 1.25" eyepiece spotting scope showed their superiority at the greater distances. Phenomenally, the Argos 8-34 shows no degradation at high magnification.

The new Helos series which is basically the Midas BTR but in Mi-Rad reticle config, like Midas has HD Glass and improved coatings. For $200 more... These coming in about 10 days. The Ares series due in early to Mid-May will have Light Optical Works glass and internals at around $800.

So Better than the already excellent Argos BTR is coming... The Cronus BTR 4.5-29x delivers top spotting scope quality at distances that can be measured in miles... Of course in a bright blue sky with no clouds, but a 8mph wind gusting to 15 or 20mph, conditions weren't really perfect; but how often are they? I had the scopes in their rings mounted on a Pic Rail that threaded onto a tripod adapter. Still forgot to bring anything for shielding the ocular, but maybe that is more realistic too?

Great Performance in my book for these Athlon Optics. Going to try both the Helos and Ares as soon as they're released.

 

[digrazir]

The glass on my new Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x 56 is awesome...every bit as good as the two S&B scopes I own according to my eyes. Great eye relief. I was only able to zero at 100 yards because because a service rifle match was going on the longer range...The turrets and zero stop is straight forward and easy to setup..On my S&B scopes, one has the DT turrets and the other has the MTC locking turrets...which I do like better than the Cronus..Considering the super good deal I got on the scope, paying less than half of what another S&B would cost I am very satisfied. Just to be clear I am in no way promoting Athlon scopes, because other than Cronus BTR I just purchased, I have never seen one before..After talking to the boys at Athlon a few times on the phone I decided to take a chance..Just wanted to share my experience is all....Ray

 

[rickytan]

The glass on my new Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x 56 is awesome...every bit as good as the two S&B scopes I own according to my eyes. Great eye relief. I was only able to zero at 100 yards because because a service rifle match was going on the longer range...The turrets and zero stop is straight forward and easy to setup..On my S&B scopes, one has the DT turrets and the other has the MTC locking turrets...which I do like better than the Cronus..Considering the super good deal I got on the scope, paying less than half of what another S&B would cost I am very satisfied. Just to be clear I am in no way promoting Athlon scopes, because other than Cronus BTR I just purchased, I have never seen one before..After talking to the boys at Athlon a few times on the phone I decided to take a chance..Just wanted to share my experience is all....Ray

Great to know. If you decide on another one let me know. I have a different user name on this forum but I sold you that one

 

[hogan]

Not to be coy or less than transparent, on the Athlon Argos thread, I made clear that I have dealership status with Athlon Optics. In my enthusiasm to report on the Cronus BTR in this thread, I failed to provide that information. That will show me, and in no way was I trying to conceal my status from those reaeding here.

That said, Athlon Optic products are an incredible value. On AR15.com a guy was complaining about how his $299 Talos BTR did everything great but track. I tested the Talos BTR 4-14 I have on hand on an AR15 and did 3 different box tests with it using a Bushnell 74-3333 boresighter/collimator. The 160moa grid in this instrument is so versatile for setting up scopes or diagnosing problems.... Anyway 3 boxes of different sizes directions etc and always back to the starting grid reference... FFP mil-rad reticle w/turrets you can zero-stop, illum reticle, sid-focus parallax. For $299 shipped?

I look forward to reporting on the Helos and Ares series scopes that are being released in the next few weeks. $1800 shipped is a bit steep for most of us. I bought my Cronus BTR just to know and because I am planning lots of time at our new 1000yd range this year. The 2.5-15x Ares though is probably more my style. 15x is plenty magnification for any shooting that isn't competitive by group sizes. I don't know that I need to have such fine resolution at distances well beyond a mile.

What i do know is that years ago i securred a Sako TRG-S barrel in .338win to improve to .338/300win and have a sporter configuration for my TRG-42. In fact I have a .300win S barrel also to match the factory .300win and had Pac-Nor make me a 26" heavy varmint barrel in .338win. The TRG-42 weighs almost 15lbs with the Cronus BTR and heavy Pac-Nor barrel. It's about 12lbs with the S barrel, maybe 11... Very handy and manageable. Will get to see this Summer what, if any difference, a sporter barrel delivers in the way of performance. The Cronus BTR has spurred me on to the proving grounds.

One other guy on a thread here was talking about S&B being an "Investment"... i say saving money is an even better way to realize return on any investment. If you get the same performance at 40% of the cost, have to consider how long would it have taken you to get 60% appreciation on anything else, much less to sell a used optic for more than you paid?

If I can be of any assistance or help to anyone evaluating a scope purchase, please send me a PM.

 

[Zero333]

Thanks for the reviews. Just wondering if Athlon replaced that fellas Talos BTR that wasn't tracking ?

 

[hogan]

Athlon has an exceptional warranty/replacement, but the guy with the Talos BTR over on AR15.com did NOT seek warranty service or contact Athlon. Maybe something was loose and he could have tightened it himself if didn't want to send back... I had this Burris Tac-30 1-4x that I sent back because illum switch had turned on w/o being pushed and the reticle tracked on diaganol in middle area of my collimator gird. That was weird, but Burris said "an o-ring failed, and water entered the scope". They replaced the scope. What more can you ask?

It is kind of "interesting" how the guyu decided that the scope tracking was bad anyway.... As I recall, he took a carpeenter's 6' ruler, put his AR lower in a benchvise, had a 300' tape measure and began twisting the turrets. Seemed pretty convoluted to me. Guy went on about this but never said anything about the scope mounts used,, etc. He upgraded to an SWFA variable which he was pleased with. I really didn't get the gist of what using a 6' ruler would mean and the taper measure. Are there really 300' tape measures?

I think a grid of almost any sort would do for box testing... You're testing for reiiability of W&E to return to zero, not that each one is 1/4 of 1.046" or whatever an MOA actually measures at 100yds. We all just round to the even inch, but MOA is an inch and a fraction... Gets rather esoteric. MIli-Radian is easier to do the math with; but again, we turn 25 clicks up, 25 clicks R, 50 down, 25 L, and then 25 up again and should be back right where started if the scope tracks. Could set rifle in a Tipton gun cradle with crosshair on a dot on a billboard and crank the turrets and arrive back at the dot. Use however many clicks you want but idea is move on a plot and you should arrive back where you started.

Do you have to spend almost a thousand to get FFP in tactical build quality? Not anymore. And the Talos BTR will track correctly right out of the box.

 

[Rob01]

Yes there are 300 foot tapes.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VU6BGA/?tag=accuratescom-20

Tracking tests should go out at least 10 mils, which is 36" at 100 yards, or 40 MOA so you can see if there is any anomalies. I have had scopes that track fine the first 10-15 MOA and then they start going off and that will cause misses at long range. Had a mil scope that went 1.1 mils at 1 mil 2.2 mils at 2 mils etc. Personally I don't check windage as I hold all myu wind but you could check it the same way but not out as far. I would go 4 mils or 15 MOA. A small 25 click, be it MOA or Mils, is not nearly enough to know if you have a tracking issue. Here is how one guy does it with the scope locked down on a special tester.

You can see how it goes off with this one.

 

[hogan]

10mils for tracking? I dunno. You're gonna lose about half your elevation potential to begin with getting a 100yd zero. Add a MOA adjusted/canted picatinny rail or some ring correction and you preserve a lot of movement you'd otherwise lose. 10 mils is gonna eqal 30' at 100yds or 300' at 1kyds. If shooting routinely at 1000 and beyond, do you still zero at 100yds or a more realistic 300yds? Are you holding off for wind or dialing? Blasting at steel it don't much matter, but for competition....

If you buy a $299 scope, do you realistically expect it to be your choice for optimum at 1000yds? Not like a Talos BTR is marketed as Choice Of Champions in F and Precision, though. The more meaningful test is to set your zero-stop at your chosen range and then run the tests from there. The Talos BTR can be zero-stopped. It is a pretty cool scopesight even at 2x the price. The compact size makes it great on AR and then you have affordable FFP and great illum reticle, not just the dot or center ch illuminated. The Talos BTR makes a decent Bindon Aiming Principle sight. Leave your flip-up down w/reticle on and you have great fast reaction. At 4x with FFP that is a real option.

Is precise tracking over the entire spectrum a necessity? Probably not, if your scope tracks in the usable spectrum for your trajectory.

To what degree are shooters unable to consider that known testing modes convey information on a common plane of understanding? Is a scope "broken" or "defective" if it won't track for the guy in his living room geeking the thing out to the Nth degree, but the same scope would track fine within the realm of realistic ballistics? Back to the zero-stopped factor again. While a test proves movement accuracy of the scope, what does it mean other than "scope not at fault", if the operator can't load good ammo or shoot consistently?

Expectations.... For years I decided to keep Leupold Mk4 because of reliabiity and light weight. Not the best optics, but I'm not a longrange group shooter and I don't care about seeing the thread hole in a button at 1000yds. At $369 & $389, I got better optics, FFP and durability over mk4 at cost of weight. Oh well... I don't hunt sheep or goats. The Athlon Cronus BTR was simply too many upgrade potentials for me to say no to... Well worth the money.

 

[hogan]

There is an aritcle in The Precision Shooting Benchrest Primer that I refer to every so often. TJ Jackson, benchrest gunsmith telling Dave Brennan about how he meticulously mounted base and scope system to preserve full range of reticle movement. Jackson takes several days to do this, and he uses a boresighting collimator, like the Bushnell 74-3333, if not the very same tool. He says the collimator is not moved throughout the process.... it's on page 118 or 119.

I have seen many scope base systems that were not concentric with bore. Jackson describes how he assures base concentricity, and then goes on to describe ring preparation and scope mounting. Ultimate goal, that the scope be perfectly aligned with the bore prior to sight-in.

If a 20moa L/R error is not a cause for concern, consider that error compounds at distance. Collimator grid reprents 4moa per square at 100yds. The grid is 40x40 from centerline, so 160moa total range. While your zero will always keep zero, no matter the error, at distance it compounds. If shooting a box test or ladder test without a perfectly aligned installation, and not knowing any better; maybe you blame the scope?

Tons of variables in shooting. On precision lathe and milling machines, operators dial over and come back to eliminate backlash. Some advise this process for eliminating backlash in turrets also... Does that help? Would it hurt? Try and see...

These guys who invent their own systems for "testing" unless trained in optical engineering are probably missing something. At very least, they can't convey to others without their recreating their test processes how or why they get the results they get. Where is the potential for a control? There are optical collimation machines costing tens of thousands. Who has one of those? But the 74-3333 costs maybe $95 and is a known factor. Few variables to affect its reliablity.
There is always use of plain graph paper... Unless you have some tool that orients scope in relationship to barrel, you have no idea about concentricity. There are simply a great many relationships at play here and isolating them is the only way to diagnose and eliminate problems.

 

[Rob01]

10 mils is 36" at 100 yards. 1 mil is 3.6" at 100 yards and 36" at 1000 yards. Any decent scope with enough elevation can easily get 10 mils of elevation dialed in to test tracking. On a 20 MOA base I have like 22 mils of up from my 100 yard zero with my Razor II scopes. I use them to shoot to 1250 yards in PRS matches with no issues. Takes about 12 mils or so. I run tracking tests on all my optics. No problem getting to 10 mils with a Vortex PST. If you want to accept a scope that's off then that's your business but I want to know when I dial data at a match that it is what I am dialing.

I hold all my wind. Once zeroed I lock the windage knob and don't touch it.

Well what is the "usable spectrum"? Shooting to 1000+ you need elevation. Your scope starts going off down at 3 or 4 mils which is past your 25 clicks checked then you are missing.

If a scope doesn't track then it doesn't track. Plain and simple. If your scope doesn't track then it doesn't matter how accurate you or your ammo is. A good tracking scope is part of the whole system.

 

[Rob01]

If you want to run a test you just need to put a piece of cardboard or paper marked with the correct measurements and do it. My test targets are 3.6" marks for each mil at 100 yards. If it's MOA then I do every 5 MOA which is 5.24" apart. You will see any variances. It's easy to see if a scope is off. I have been doing it for over 20 years. It's not hard or technical if you know what you are doing and can do simple math.

 

[hogan]

My mistake on mil values and thanks for the correction. The "usuable spectrum" term relates to the elevation capablity of a specific scope once it is zero-stopped for distance. Maybe "usable range of elevation" would have been clearer? Point was that if your scope tracks accurately within the usable range of elevation and windage, is it broken? Is it defective? If it "works" within the practical realm of your ballistics, and essentially that is what any scope has to do if you will dial elevation or windage, does anything else matter?

Kind of got side-tracked here with the arfcom discussion, obviously lifetime warranties are there to make certain you receive all you can reasonably expect from your product... Someday we might discuss the legal ramifications of "warranty" obligation. In the scopesight segment of the Optics Industry though, there are no serious manufacturers who attempt to chisel their customers by denying customer satisfaction as a primary goal. Athlon would have repaired or replaced the Talos BTR scope the guy found objectionable, were it actually found to be defective. Of course, that did not happen.

 

[Rob01]

So you are saying if someone zeros their scope and they only shoot to 400 yards and the scope tracks then that is fine even if it had an issue farther up the elevation range? I guess that could be said and that as long as the customer is happy then that is fine. My usable range is much higher than some though and why i test farther and more often as I don't just test once but every couple years. If a weekend hunter only needs to dial to 400 and he is happy then I am sure that is all that counts but any serious competitor checks their optics out much farther as during a weekend match those dials can be turned up and down many, many times and they need to track and be repeatable.

Scope tracking and repeatability is hardly an arfcom discussion as it is the most important thing in an optic. My statements weren't meant towards any specific make of scope or situation but when you kind of blew off the guy's testing as not really important I felt like saying something for anyone reading this as it is very important for a scope to track. Again my statements were neither brand or model specific but scopes in general. I am sure Athlon would have helped him out if he brought it to them as most companies would. I have been around the optics industry for a long time and know quite a bit about it and many people in it. I have been shooting precision rifles since 1993 and competing nationally since 2003. I know the industry well.

 

[hogan]

If you want to rig some jake-leg method of scope testing, that's fine. If you zero your turret dials (set them to an index # specifically. probably at -0-), you can do any kind of "box test" you want. Track the scope around a billboard or something else of uniform vertical and horiz dimension. Maybe even a window? They're usually pretty uniform, at least the glass is.

My remark about "usable range" relates to the remaining movement within the turrets AFTER the scope is zeroed with a load at a given distance... Typically, without a canted or shimmed scope base (or burris zee inserts), a riflescope is NOT dead center of elevation range at 50 or 100yds. So. you don't have 30moa usable on a 60moa scope. Lots of old Leupolds were 48moa maybe 44moa in terms of full range of vertical travel.

Yeah, it matters. I said something about "why not return the scope to have it repaired or replaced". Yet, is it really the turret movements that is most critical aspect of a riflescope? How well do you shoot with irons? How well do you shoot from a sling at standing, with no jacket??? The scopesight puts everything onto one optical plane and there is no further alignment to fight with. On a heavy bipod, there is no struggle. Yeah, with a precision rear mechanical sight and front barrel band type with integral level, great things can be done in the match environ.

The point is: in the real world, and ALL these 34mm tube scopes, are made for military or police application; they have just been adopted by target shooters. Military has uniform procedures for setting up scopesights and then for diagnosing problems. At some level, S&B consults on their military contracts with tech support guys in the logistics supply chain. They utilize set procedures to identify problems at each level of diagnosis. Only so many things can go wrong. If you think you've invented the wheel without knowing what a circle is, will it work? It sure won't be easy to describe to another person.

The use of scopesights in NRA competition is pretty new. The Metalic Silhouette guys were THE longrange game for many years, at least those using optics. High Power and Palma were irons, only recently in Service Rifle are scopes allowed; like This Year recent. The longrange shooting fraternity created by snipercountry.com, longrangehunting, and a couple years later, snipershide all happened wihtin the last 20yrs! The Leupold 3.5-10x 40mm LR/T was the first public marketed tactical scope; at least with all the bells and whistles now expected, 30mm tube, mil reticle. Had footballs not dots, was a wire reticle at that time. There were B&L, Nikon, and Mk4s, but they were specialty items.

Some perspective. To have come this far in less than 20yrs is amazing and a testament to free-market capitalism to make product to meet "needs". That it has been done in constant period of war is also amazing...

If your Athlon scope don't work the way you expect it to: send it in to the repair center in Kansas... kind of a no brainer. If it don't work right, out of the box; get a replacement or your money back from your dealer.

In the same past 20yrs, shooters who forever were okay with friction turret adjustments, "needed" click turrets; and the longrange shooters that dial, needed external target turrets with "crisp" feel and audible no matter the ambient sound level. Next year, it may be Quiet Clicks they'll neeed?

I do also take issue with all those who seem to have embraced the "military style" instruction and mode of longrange shooting. The retired instructors aren't trying to get through to guys who barely got out of highschool. There is no need for gruffness and hardness. You aren't entitled to "respect' or defference. You have no "rank" here; besides what might be said of your behaviour. Pope, Sharpe, Whelen, Cooper, Page, Shilen could have all posted here and still gotten a new idea from someone looking at the eternal rifle problems in a new way. There's always more than one way to get an answer...

 

[Rob01]

Yes the turret movement is the most critical aspect of a scope. Being off due to position or shooting style has nothing to do with it. Those can be overcome and practiced but if you dial 8 mils in and your scope moves 9 mils of actual movement then you are missing no matter how stable or unstable your position.

Yes the past 20 years have been a time of great strides in scope tech and I had one of the old Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x40 M3s. Worked well for that time but not that time anymore. I was/am a member at all those sites mentioned as well as others and have been a moderator at Snipers Hide for about 11 years. Like I said I have been around this for a while too.

Not sure where your last paragraph came from talking about training and rank. You lost me there.

Obviously you and I are not going to agree on this aspect of the scope function and testing so it is what it is. You do things the way you like and I will do the same.

 

[hogan]

Rob,

I think you missed The Point.... I recommended the guy return his scope for repair or replacement. I DO think a product should work as designed.

My remark about tracking and testing relates to using an optic in the field. If you run box test tall box test or any other kind of test AFTER you're zeroed, and with a reference that can always be depended on; a stable non-varying tool, you have reliability and known quantity. Maybe you run a box test before you even fire a round? Diagnose a problem before it is a problem...

But, what matters is the box test run AFTER zeroed. How much windage & elevation do you actually have? No need to come down from a 100yd zero, but if your zero were 500yds, then run both ways. While a scope may have a total of 80 moa elevation and windage, will all E or W be usable with reticle at extreme position in the tube? Usually not.

Testing my Cronus BTR I find it delivers 32.2 total mils of elevation and 18 mils total windage keeping 18mil windage at extremes. The scope does box test at full extension (max elevation and windage) just fine and returns to the -0- set turret index. Rifle it is mounted on has not been zeroed, yet.