Cream of Wheat...not just for breakfast!

[AP2020]

I did this video last Friday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrzAYk6D8yE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUqYhWJBYUFC6W3NRR-g5b7g

 

[Ackman]

What a complete waste. A primer, 15.5gr powder, 16.5gr cow, filler, and the time it takes to put it all together.....twice as long. You've used materials and time needlessly. To form AI cases you just work up the most accurate load as with any other cartridge, with bullets, and go shoot stuff. The "fireform" load will be faster than standard and have the same accuracy as formed brass. The 260 case has very little body taper as is.....the load with formed brass will be either identical or very close. That's all there is to it. Your video is gonna mislead people who don't know any better.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

..To form AI cases you just work up the most accurate load as with any other cartridge, with bullets, and go shoot stuff. ..

+1. Fireforming result with the 243 Ackley. Regards JCS

 

[bigedp51]

260Ackley

P.O. Ackley designed his improved cartridges so the parent cartridge could be fired in the improved chamber without taking any special steps.

Try this simple experiment with your Ackley chamber.

1. Measure the length of a new "standard" unfired cartridge cases and write it down.



2. Place a fired spent primer in the primer pocket just starting the primer with your fingers.





3. Now chamber this test cartridge letting the bolt seat the primer while closing the bolt.

Extract the case and re-measure the case, the amount of primer protrusion is your "excess headspace" or head clearance.



How much head clearance do you have with the parent case? I have seen brand new cases .009 shorter than the GO gauge and they didn't stretch when fired.



If you like a verity of hot cereals for breakfast you should switching from COW to rice.



After you eat the Puffed Rice you should read P.O. Ackley's book.

 

[bigedp51]

..To form AI cases you just work up the most accurate load as with any other cartridge, with bullets, and go shoot stuff. ..

+1. Fireforming result with the 243 Ackley. Regards JCS

What a complete waste of perfectly good cardboard You could have used it as backer board at the range to staple your targets to.

You could have practiced making head shots on Zombies and NOT gotten blood all over the cardboard. :

(You obviously haven't seen "Shaun of the Dead" or "28 Days Later")

 

[SeabeeKen]

I used this method to form 100 243AI cases last winter. Only 1 case failed to form perfectly and it had a slightly rounded shoulder. One thing I did find, check for carbon (burnt COW) inside the case in the neck shoulder area. I found a lot of it in there and used a pick to get it out.
I prefer shooting bullets to form them but to each their own. I also found that the case forming loads were very accurate. If you're cheap then the COW method does work but makes the case and bore very dirty and takes time to clean it all out.
Would I do it again? Only if bullets are very scarce.

 

[gotcha]

Well, there's your problem! We don't use cow or puffed rice in Georgia, we use grits. Clean as a whistle. .............. PLEASE don't take this post seriously

 

[TroyMN]

Not sure if some of the posters realize. Everyone is not in the same situation as them.
I have read the following information this site.
Some live very far from their range to just go to do forming is an issue. Members can do in backyards, once saw a person living in town use a 55 gallon barrel as a suppressor in a garage.
Very good accuracy fire forming is not good enough for some.
Projectiles are scarce.
My personal thoughts 9-14 grains of powder beats 40 on the pocket book/ your supply. Any cheap old primer vs my BR2 save some $ and my BR2.
It causes barrel wear not needed on your 6-284
Sorry I just thought the OP was not being treated kind, maybe I missed the smiley faces or the joking but it seems like he was being put down.


That being said I have a new to me 6mm AI that I plan on SHOOTING to form the brass. I do not get too much time to shoot and want to see holes in the targets. Maybe I could save a lot of time and money just get a #2 pencil and jab groups in paper
Troy

 

[Ackman]

Projectiles are scarce.
My personal thoughts 9-14 grains of powder beats 40 on the pocket book/ your supply. Any cheap old primer vs my BR2 save some $ and my BR2.
It causes barrel wear not needed on your 6-284


Troy

You're just not getting it. And the OP doesn't get it. A "fireforming" step uses components and doesn't save anything including time. Read again....you go someplace and work up a load.....it's an actual load for shooting. It'll use more powder than the parent cartridge, be faster than the parent cartridge, and as accurate as with formed brass. With that case it'll be nearly the same load as with formed brass. This isn't difficult. For people who're concerned about cost, it saves the cost of a primer and 15.5gr powder, and the time/nonsense involved with putting it and 16gr of cereal together with some kind of fiber. This cereal stuff gets posted every so often and it hard to believe people somehow think it's saving them anything.

 

[bozo699]

Projectiles are scarce.
My personal thoughts 9-14 grains of powder beats 40 on the pocket book/ your supply. Any cheap old primer vs my BR2 save some $ and my BR2.
It causes barrel wear not needed on your 6-284


Troy

You're just not getting it. And the OP doesn't get it. A "fireforming" step uses components and doesn't save anything including time. Read again....you go someplace and work up a load.....it's an actual load for shooting. It'll use more powder than the parent cartridge, be faster than the parent cartridge, and as accurate as with formed brass. With that case it'll be nearly the same load as with formed brass. This isn't difficult. For people who're concerned about cost, it saves the cost of a primer and 15.5gr powder, and the time/nonsense involved with putting it and 16gr of cereal together with some kind of fiber. This cereal stuff gets posted every so often and it hard to believe people somehow think it's saving them anything.

You know it really depends on the cartridge, the AI's I agree with you but if your blowing out a 6br to say a dasher it can be a good thing. I think everone has been pretty hard on the op. there are no absolutes when it comes to this.
Wayne.

 

[DRNewcomb]

I have used the COW technique; not to create "improved" cartridges but rather to form obsolete cartridges from some modern cartridge. 8mm rimmed Austrian comes to mind.

 

[AP2020]

from our "beloved" 6mmbr website


http://www.6mmbr.com/260AIforming.html

 

[AP2020]

HEY ackman


YOU CAN GO POUND SAND PAL....


a little investigative work reveals that you have 1 positive and 3 NEGATIVE feedbacks......I wonder why?


for a resounding NET feedback rating of NEGATIVE TWO (-2).......good luck doing any business with me..


apparently you must have MORE MONEY than the average Joe Shooter on this site, many fine and reputable shooters prescribe to the COW method to fireform their cases.

Where do you "get off" being a BULLY?

around my parts...we do not take too kindly to bullies...that is not a threat, but a PROMISE.

Projectiles are scarce.
My personal thoughts 9-14 grains of powder beats 40 on the pocket book/ your supply. Any cheap old primer vs my BR2 save some $ and my BR2.
It causes barrel wear not needed on your 6-284


Troy

You're just not getting it. And the OP doesn't get it. A "fireforming" step uses components and doesn't save anything including time. Read again....you go someplace and work up a load.....it's an actual load for shooting. It'll use more powder than the parent cartridge, be faster than the parent cartridge, and as accurate as with formed brass. With that case it'll be nearly the same load as with formed brass. This isn't difficult. For people who're concerned about cost, it saves the cost of a primer and 15.5gr powder, and the time/nonsense involved with putting it and 16gr of cereal together with some kind of fiber. This cereal stuff gets posted every so often and it hard to believe people somehow think it's saving them anything.

 

[SeabeeKen]

OK Ack,
I spent the winter, first fireforming cases using the COW method and then another batch using bullets. My results were quite clear. The COW method formed cases 99.99%...... CHEAP
Using bullets, I found that a near max load was needed to fully form shoulders.....EXPENSIVE.... with scarce components.
Lastley, I used numerous powders testing and fireforming loads for my 243AI (748,N140,N150,N160,H414,H380,H4350,RE15,RE19,H4831SC,Varget,RE10X,RE17,RE22,Superperformance) using several different bullets. I found that the fireforming loads did not have the same accuracy after the cases were formed. In fact, the loads that were the most accurate didn't even form the cases perfectly. Speed wasn't the goal, accuracy was. In the end, it was cheaper to form the cases with COW and then develop accuracy loads than it was to do both at the same time. The forming loads often were more accurate than the same load after the case was formed. The result, I will form my cases with COW, and then develop my loads. Just my experience after hundreds of test loads.

 

[TC260]

Hey 260, Haters are gonna hate. Ignore 'em.

I did some COW forming for a 375 wildcat the other day and in short order had 100 formed cases. Worked great. It's not the kind of gun you wanna go pound off 100 fireforming rounds with in a session and Hornady has suspended production of the bullets indefinitely so they're hard to come by. COW isn't perfect for every situation but it's a handy technique to know.

Nice video BTW.

 

[bigedp51]

OK Ack,
I spent the winter, first fireforming cases using the COW method and then another batch using bullets. My results were quite clear. The COW method formed cases 99.99%...... CHEAP
Using bullets, I found that a near max load was needed to fully form shoulders.....EXPENSIVE.... with scarce components.

I use habanero hot peppers and COW and it blows everything out 100%.

 

[Ackman]

HEY ackman


1) YOU CAN GO POUND SAND PAL....


2) a little investigative work reveals that you have 1 positive and 3 NEGATIVE feedbacks......I wonder why?
for a resounding NET feedback rating of NEGATIVE TWO (-2).......good luck doing any business with me..

3)apparently you must have MORE MONEY than the average Joe Shooter on this site, many fine and reputable shooters prescribe to the COW method to fireform their cases.

4) Where do you "get off" being a BULLY?

5)around my parts...we do not take too kindly to bullies...that is not a threat, but a PROMISE.

Hey 260

1) you sure told me....not very nice saying that to a "pal"

2) 3 negatives 3yrs ago.....the same guy, all butthurt when I told him what was what, here only a little while. I'm not concerned about a crybaby.

3) You really don't get it. An extra step doesn't save money.

4) Gosh.

5) I've sure been warned.

 

[Ackman]

You know it really depends on the cartridge, the AI's I agree with you but if your blowing out a 6br to say a dasher it can be a good thing. I think everone has been pretty hard on the op. there are no absolutes when it comes to this.
Wayne.

I've formed a few wildcats, never had a dasher. But this is about AI's, not wildcats. Heck, the 308 parent case has nearly AI taper to begin with.

 

[Ackman]

OK Ack,
I spent the winter, first fireforming cases using the COW method and then another batch using bullets. My results were quite clear. The COW method formed cases 99.99%...... CHEAP
Using bullets, I found that a near max load was needed to fully form shoulders.....EXPENSIVE.... with scarce components.
Lastley, I used numerous powders testing and fireforming loads for my 243AI (748,N140,N150,N160,H414,H380,H4350,RE15,RE19,H4831SC,Varget,RE10X,RE17,RE22,Superperformance) using several different bullets. I found that the fireforming loads did not have the same accuracy after the cases were formed. In fact, the loads that were the most accurate didn't even form the cases perfectly. Speed wasn't the goal, accuracy was. In the end, it was cheaper to form the cases with COW and then develop accuracy loads than it was to do both at the same time. The forming loads often were more accurate than the same load after the case was formed. The result, I will form my cases with COW, and then develop my loads. Just my experience after hundreds of test loads.

I don't know what your "near max" is. Fireforming will be at more than book max for the parent cartridge, sometimes a lot more. With my 243AI's it's 1+ to 2+ gr more W760 than what different manuals say for a 70. The load is right when bullets are all touching or close to it. That load cooks right along a good bit faster than std. 243 and killed a lot of stuff. The workup is all done. With this cartridge formed brass uses almost the exact same load.

Speed is never the #1 goal with anything, but it happens with improved cases. Part of what they are is more speed from the same case.

If the the load doesn't form a case completely with a bullet, it needs a lot more powder.

I suppose if it's winter and someone's horny to pull a trigger, cow works for that. But this thing about economy..........an extra firing doesn't save money.

 

[bozo699]

You know it really depends on the cartridge, the AI's I agree with you but if your blowing out a 6br to say a dasher it can be a good thing. I think everone has been pretty hard on the op. there are no absolutes when it comes to this.
Wayne.

I've formed a few wildcats, never had a dasher. But this is about AI's, not wildcats. Heck, the 308 parent case has nearly AI taper to begin with.

Wrong on both counts! A AI is a wildcat,..you can't buy them in a store can you?....you have to alter brass to have it don't you?...Now I don't care that it is load and shoot, it still needs altered so there for theoretically it is a wildcat! The .308 cases (.243-.338 Federal all have quite a bit of taper. Quit trying to be a forum bully on here, I wouldn't personally use cow to form ackley brass either my 6mm AI and my 22-250 AI and my .257 AI are all deadly accurate with loaded rounds, but I have used cow and it worked fine and if .260 wants to share a safe and proven method of f.f his AI cases then let him alone! you stated your opinion!
Wayne.