Cream of Wheat Fireforming...?

[daniel brothers]

Cream of Wheat Fireforming...?

Is it really needed...?

These 22-243AI and 20-250AI wildcats are my first calibers that I've had to form Lapua brass, and don't mind doing the cream of wheat thing...but was wondering if it REALLY makes a difference while working up a load for these calibers.

I've been shooting and forming brass with regular loads, but have some new brass to form and thought I'd save time, money, and barrel life if I did the wheat.

Can I get a true reading if I work up loads with unformed brass... or do I absolutely need to fireform them first...?

 

[Brians356]

I recommend fire forming "bulletless" to produce the best case in one pass. A calibrated charge of pistol powder like Bullseye over a pistol primer really pops the case into shape, with sharper shoulder points, in my experience with 250 AI.

I formed my 250 AI from 22-250 brass, so pretty much exactly what you're doing, however I will have to dig out my charge of Bullseye for you, it was in the range of 12-15 grains as I recall. Use some culled cases, start at 10 grains and work up until you get a nice sharp shoulder. I used a Winchester Large Pistol primer. (Also, I lightly lubed the case body, but <shhhh> don't tell anybody around here - that's an apostasy.)

I didn't like Cream of Wheat, it left too many clumps behind, I went with corn grits. A small wad of tissue over the powder, grits, wax plug in case mouth.

But as to your specific question: I don't see how you can work up a "keeper" load for any AI case based on the fire-forming session. But you could be just the chap to dispel that idea once and for all. Let us know how it works out.

 

[daniel brothers]

I've been using the blue dot with light loads.. with tissue and wheat... and the shoulders are looking pretty good... but I think I'm too lazy to do them all this way...LOL.

 

[Brians356]

I've been using the blue dot with light loads.. with tissue and wheat... and the shoulders are looking pretty good... but I think I'm too lazy to do them all this way...LOL.

Is it less work to load a bullet and full rifle charge than to load the wheat and tissue? What am I missing?

You're not shooting a 22-243 AI until after you have formed, then loaded, a 22-243 AI case. Just my opinion.

 

[savagedasher]

My gun smith mad me a 12ga shot gun a chambered piece that is the same size as a fired shell.
I use blue dot with cream of wheat. I point it straight up and shoot When I get done with a hundred all I have to clean up is a smooth bore shot gun.
A cheap old rust break open single and works great Larry

 

[expiper]

OP,,,dont forget that you can fire form with shotgun/pistol powder and 1/4 sq of toilet paper and NO bullet and NO cream of wheat or coco puffs or whatever,,,,much quiker/cleaner and logical to me,,,,and no gunky stinky clean up when done,,,Roger
PS,,,I think the very best method is with a bullet and full charge of the regular powder,,,but,,,with the price and availability of components in these times I use the above method,,,

 

[222 rem]

Great Idea.

 

[daniel brothers]

Hey Larry... we gotta see pictures of that thing... sounds interesting for sure.

 

[mr45man]

quote from Savagedasher

My gun smith mad me a 12ga shot gun a chambered piece that is the same size as a fired shell.

What a great idea.
John H.

 

[dixieppc]

I use red dot shotgun powder, a little bit of toilet paper on top of the powder and then fill the case all the way to the neck mouth with cream of wheat. I then compress the cream of wheat to the bottom of the neck with a Wilson decapping rod turned around backwards and fill the neck in with old bar soap. This gives me real nice sharp edges without having to throw any expensive bullets down an expensive barrel. I finish up by ultrasonic cleaning to get the cream of wheat residue out of the case. Not sure if the ultrasonic cleaning is needed but it makes me feel good.

Regards...

 

[gotcha]

That savagedasher idea is great. Here's another, though I haven't tried it yet. Brownells has a product called: VFG weapons cleaning pellets. I'm thinking you might be able to push these little felt pellets into your case neck trapping the powder then simply fire them through the bore. No wax to mess with, no burned on crud in the bore, no powder in the chamber etc. About $8.00/50 ..... Fire-forming my .257AI with 87 gr. bullets and max charge for parent case yielded velocity 200 FPS slower than same charge in a pre formed case. Accuracy was excellent but still had to re tune for max velocity. Waste of bullets.

 

[bigedp51]

My gun smith mad me a 12ga shot gun a chambered piece that is the same size as a fired shell.
I use blue dot with cream of wheat. I point it straight up and shoot When I get done with a hundred all I have to clean up is a smooth bore shot gun.
A cheap old rust break open single and works great Larry

You could recoup your smiths bill by making a little money in a side business..........................

Called Savage Dasher Puffed Rice and Puffed Wheat...............but I get 10% of the profits for the idea and promoting it. :

 

[Jet]

OP,,,dont forget that you can fire form with shotgun/pistol powder and 1/4 sq of toilet paper and NO bullet and NO cream of wheat or coco puffs or whatever,,,,much quiker/cleaner and logical to me,,,,and no gunky stinky clean up when done,,,Roger
PS,,,I think the very best method is with a bullet and full charge of the regular powder,,,but,,,with the price and availability of components in these times I use the above method,,,

Agree with expiper on this. I've only used TP and it works just fine. Make sure you snug it in the case to keep the pistol powder in the bottom of the case.

Jet

 

[Brians356]

OP,,,dont forget that you can fire form with shotgun/pistol powder and 1/4 sq of toilet paper and NO bullet and NO cream of wheat or coco puffs or whatever,,,,much quiker/cleaner and logical to me,,,,and no gunky stinky clean up when done,,,Roger
PS,,,I think the very best method is with a bullet and full charge of the regular powder,,,but,,,with the price and availability of components in these times I use the above method,,,

Agree with expiper on this. I've only used TP and it works just fine. Make sure you snug it in the case to keep the pistol powder in the bottom of the case.

The only reason I use filler and wax plug is to make the loads reasonably robust and transportable. With only tissue, if the rounds were tipped over and jostled (I crawl up a really rough 4WD road to where I shoot them) the powder might not all stay adjacent to the primer, and would probably spill out of the case.

If I wanted to load the cases on location where I shoot them, I would omit even the tissue. Pour in the powder, insert into the chamber and fire while holding the rifle vertical.

But I wonder if it would require more powder to get the same pressure as when packed with filler and plug? There is some inertia in the filler, however slight.

 

[BillPa]

OP,,,dont forget that you can fire form with shotgun/pistol powder and 1/4 sq of toilet paper and NO bullet and NO cream of wheat or coco puffs or whatever,,,,much quiker/cleaner

That's how I do them. Throw a charge of Unique, the TP and fire'm. Sometimes I'll stick the neck in a bar of soap then break it off to make a soap bullet. They're deadly on bumblebees, stink bugs and other dangerous game at 10 feet! ;D

Bill

 

[Brians356]

OP,,,dont forget that you can fire form with shotgun/pistol powder and 1/4 sq of toilet paper and NO bullet and NO cream of wheat or coco puffs or whatever,,,,much quiker/cleaner

That's how I do them. Throw a charge of Unique, the TP and fire'm. Sometimes I'll stick the neck in a bar of soap then break it off to make a soap bullet. They're deadly on bumblebees, stink bugs and other dangerous game at 10 feet! ;D

Bill

Yeah, but if you fill with corn grits, you can go bird hunting. Betcha never thought of that! And not worry about swallowing lead shot. "Corn fed!"