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Confused over Berger seating depth test

Okumacaptain

Ok ! So Berger states that with a target rifle you should start .01 in the lands and then move back .04 , .08 and then .12 ! Holy cow that’s a lot . They state one of those distances will shine over the others . Here’s the confusing part . Erik Cortina shoots Berger’s and he says to start with touching the lands and then move back in .003 increments till you find the sweet spot which he says you will get to within .03 !!!!

So you guys see why I’m scratching my head ! What’s up with this HUMONGOUS DISCREPANCY????

Thx

Mark
 
Everyone has different methods of finding their ideal depth.

Some guys have gotten the berger method to work; I'm not personally a fan of doing that out of the gate. Perhaps doing it as a last resort if you can't find anything using more common methods. I don't know of any competitive shooter who experiments with a new bullet using the prescribed berger method though.

Some like finding touch depth, backing off (usually .010 or .020) and working back in small increments.

Others start with a hard jam and back off in small increments. Sometimes they'll rough it in with .005 increments and fine tune....

I think you'll find the method someone uses often corresponds with the discipline and the cartridge. BR guys with a PPC will probably be jamming, F-Class guys with a 284 will probably be off the lands, and God only knows what those PRS guys are doing :p.

Without having the details of what you're doing, or your accuracy requirements, the safest "generic" answer I'd give would be "just park it touch depth, and start working back in .003 - .005" increments until you find it start to tighten up". If you're ok with jamming the bullets, start it .020 into the lands and work back.
 
Personally, I start with a hard jam, then work back in .005 increments. My thinking is I start with a worse case scenario in regards to pressure. When I find a seating depth that looks promising, I will fine tune from there in both seating depth and sometimes powder charge, but NEVER changing more than one variable at time.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd
 
Cartridge, bullet type, etc all play different factors IMO. I've heard VLDs like a jam. I only shoot hybrids so I start at .015 off touch. My touch using the Wheeler method will vary from a hornady tool method. I then go .003 increments. I've always been between .015 and .021 with hybrids but that's me and how I measure.
 
Bergers recommendation is an outgrowth of learning customers were achieving high accuracy when loading target bullets to mag length in hunting rifles, which resulted in the long jumps. On the other hand most target rounds have a well documented accuracy into or much closer to the lands. Choose the approach which best suits your situation.
 
Using Berger 105gr VLD Hunting bullets I followed Berger’s suggestion and loaded 5 each at 0, -.040, -.080 and -.120. -.080 & -.120 were very close in size.
Loaded 10 at -.100 and never looked back.
To say I was surprised is an understatement. I had never used VLD’s before, believed they had to be seated on or into the lands. That did not work for me so I tried Berger’s suggestion, glad I did.
 
Okumacaptain said:
Erik Cortina shoots Berger’s and he says to start with touching the lands and then move back in .003 increments till you find the sweet spot which he says you will get to within .03 !!!!
Click to expand...
And the rest of what Berger says, is after you run the coarse test then run the fine adjustment test

Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
Click to expand...
For the VLD-H bullets in several rifles I find they prefer 0.050" jump. If I started at jam and increased the jump 0.003" each test, I would use up a lot of barrel life just getting to the 0.050" jump.
 
Own a heavy barrel 7/08 that I had trouble getting to shoot. Worked between a slight jam and .050 off lands and best I could get was .75 MOA. Tried the Berger test and settled on .120 off lands and am getting average 5 shot groups of low4's high 3's. The Berger method really worked for me. I would have never went as far as .120 off had it not been for the Berger method. Had I tried this method earlier I would have saved a lot of components and grief.
 
Nobody has yet clarified so far as I can see a basic misunderstanding made by the OP. The Berger advice he quotes is solely for VLD-form bullets which have a well-earned reputation for being finicky about seating position / jump.

These suggestions either don't necessarily apply to Hybrid-form Bergers and not at all for the traditional tangent ogive-form BT / LRBT models.
 
I seem to remember when reading the Berger website they stated that their bullet (I assume the VLD) had a .040“ accuracy range, suggesting you needed to locate the .040” area. Mine worked out to -.080” to -.120”.
Using their suggestion it took 25 rounds (5 each at -.040”, -.080” & -.120” then 10 @ -.100” to verify accuracy), really a shock to me. Had never jumped ANY bullet more than -.030”.
Not too surprisingly several fellow shooters were skeptical as I would have been had I not actually knew the background.
We or most of us were convinced VLDs had to be at the lands or jammed.
 
Walt Schmidlin said:
I seem to remember when reading the Berger website they stated that their bullet (I assume the VLD) had a .040“ accuracy range, suggesting you needed to locate the .040” area. Mine worked out to -.080” to -.120”.
Using their suggestion it took 25 rounds (5 each at -.040”, -.080” & -.120” then 10 @ -.100” to verify accuracy), really a shock to me. Had never jumped ANY bullet more than -.030”.
Not too surprisingly several fellow shooters were skeptical as I would have been had I not actually knew the background.
We or most of us were convinced VLDs had to be at the lands or jammed.
Click to expand...
I think there were 2 Berger articles . One said VLD and the other wasn’t bullet specific, but both pretty much said same .
 
I ran their test on Saturday for a hunting rifle. .010 / .050 / .090 / .130 jump six rounds each shooting groups of three just like Berger suggests. The .130 had the smallest group (and aggregate) with .050 in a fairly close second place. .010 jump finished in last place

140gr VLD H

Just for fun I'm going to give .050 and .130 another run to confirm
 
It's not just the VLD bullets.
One of my 300wm barrels prefers 185 Hybrid Targets at .095" jump. My 28 Nosler Preferres .100" jump with 175gr Elite Hunters, it made the difference from .75 moa five shot groups to .3 to .4 moa.
 
Never seen, nor can I find, an article on seating the hybrids on the Berger site.

The VLD article is under the Resources tab, in the Reloading section.
 
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