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Concentricity gauge

Does anyone have any first hand experience with the H&H concentricity gauge? I like the idea of being to measure and then correct loaded ammunition.

Thanks.
 
I have had a H&H for a long time. Because of the difference in how a loaded round is supported it gives a different reading on the same round than my old Sinclair. The straightening feature is easy to use but I believe that the best use of a concentricity gauge is to learn what your reloading tools are producing so that you can make an informed decision about the quality of your dies. Years ago, speaking of short range group shooting, I was told that on the bullet runout of .002 or less does not show up on targets. Some time after that I did an experiment with the H&H bending a round to .0035 runout, chambering it and then unloading it. The subsiquent measurement was .0015. I still use my gauges to see what new equipment is producing for runout. If it is not satisfactory, I either modify it so that it is, or replace it.
 
The govt. spec at lake city was .005 on case taper before the bullet was loaded. We tried to line em up better than that especially on match or special ball but some toolsetters didnt. I dont know how much .005 would effect accuracy. They had to be in a certain circle at 600 yds. Some of them got shot out of mini guns. Doug
 
Does anyone have any first hand experience with the H&H concentricity gauge? I like the idea of being to measure and then correct loaded ammunition.

Thanks.
There are so many other aspects of most peoples reloading process that are far more important than a concentricity gauge. I’m not saying this is true of your process, but concentricity is so far down the list of things that truly matter with regard to accuracy. I have a gauge that is so dusty that it looks like I haven’t touched it in 3 years.
 
I spent way too much time and $ to reduce my case neck and bullet runout. While I learned a lot and did significantly improve my runout, zero change on the target.
I couldn’t agree more with your assessment. I found the exact same thing.
 
do you have a name for the V-block type or one could be had?
This is good enough to show straight ammo: https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...s/sinclair-concentricity-gauge-prod37479.aspx
This one is nicer: https://bullettipping.com/products/concentricity-gauge/

These V-block type gauges are misnomer'd as concentricity gauges, but really they're runout gauges.
They provide total indicated runout (TIR).
There is an important difference that leads to where & why runout can matter.

As long as you have chamber clearance for your loaded ammo, runout won't matter.
It's when your bananas curve so much that they bind in your chamber that shots are thrown.
This, due to resulting chamber pressure points.
So runout can matter.

I have a fitted chamber in one gun, and so much as 1thou TIR would surely throw shots.
That kind of runout would be an extreme in that gun.
I have other guns, looser chambers, where I doubt 3thou bananas would hurt results.
 
There are so many other aspects of most peoples reloading process that are far more important than a concentricity gauge. I’m not saying this is true of your process, but concentricity is so far down the list of things that truly matter with regard to accuracy. I have a gauge that is so dusty that it looks like I haven’t touched it in 3 years.
This^^^^
 
This is good enough to show straight ammo: https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...s/sinclair-concentricity-gauge-prod37479.aspx
This one is nicer: https://bullettipping.com/products/concentricity-gauge/

These V-block type gauges are misnomer'd as concentricity gauges, but really they're runout gauges.
They provide total indicated runout (TIR).
There is an important difference that leads to where & why runout can matter.

As long as you have chamber clearance for your loaded ammo, runout won't matter.
It's when your bananas curve so much that they bind in your chamber that shots are thrown.
This, due to resulting chamber pressure points.
So runout can matter.

I have a fitted chamber in one gun, and so much as 1thou TIR would surely throw shots.
That kind of runout would be an extreme in that gun.
I have other guns, looser chambers, where I doubt 3thou bananas would hurt results.
TY!
 
An oldie but a goodie...
Runs brass as well as ammo.
NECO gage.

1667169479589.png

While I completely agree that runout and concentricity is a tricky subject and it turns out there are more important things to worry about..., I think it is best to learn it early.

There is a nuance to what we are telling rookies about not needing a gage. To be clear, we are saying it isn't important because it isn't difficult to produce ammo that has runout well below the level that matters.

But that is selling you short in my view. I would rather give you the option to see mine, and test your brass, prep, and ammo for yourself, than have me tell you. Even if that means you never touch one again.

Often folks who put this topic away can say they have not touched their runout gages in years, can forget that when they were beginners it was more useful and that in short order their process was both improved and stays below the limits. However, I think beginners need a chance to do some learning on their own.

If you only work with high quality brass, and you are careful with good tools, your ammo will be below the limits. However... is the lesson stronger if I show you some banana brass or crooked ammo that actually doesn't shoot well, and then show you ammo that does?

If a rookie wants to learn about how brass quality can vary, or how their prep process is affected by their details, then a tool to measure both the brass and the loaded ammo is worth the trouble. Even if they eventually collect dust or they sell it of give it away.

I admit mine rarely comes out, but it still does come out. Sometimes it is to teach a point or when trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... like with component shortages that has folks showing up with crappy brass and low quality materials, it can be valuable.

We didn't always have such high quality brass, but if you have enough of that junk pile and a rookie willing to sort with a gage, we can make that junk the equal of the good brass.

Education isn't cheap, and ignorance can be very costly. I don't share the view that a runout gage is completely useless. Without one, you can't demonstrate the point. Just an opinion. YMMV
 
My Forester Concentricity Gage gets used only on the first loading of new brass and bullets, just to be sure I didn't screw up. About the first 5 seated rounds. Since I now only use Lapua, Peterson, and Alpha and never see a problem I should quit doing this but My OCD won't let me.
 
I have a Sinclair Concentricity tool. Don’t think it has moved off the shelf in years. I really think that if you are using good, quality dies and good components this should not really be an issue. The only time that I ever really found more than a few thou of runout, was a number of years ago, when I was using a rather inexpensive bushing sizer die. That die was inducing a small amount of runout. That being said, I don’t truly know if the small amount of runout it produced, actually translated into issues downrange.
 
I spent way too much time and $ to reduce my case neck and bullet runout. While I learned a lot and did significantly improve my runout, zero change on the target.
Same here...it's a deep dark rabbit hole.....
PopCharlie
 
I agree that a concentricity gauge isn't the most critical tool to have at the reloading bench, and is likely to see infrequent use. But there are a few tools that fall into that category. I haven't used my flat-anvil micrometer in a while, either, since most reloading-related tasks call for a ball mic. But I wouldn't want to be without it.

And there are a few advanced handloading situations in which measuring TIR is important. If you use an FCP IDOD/ADOD for neck turning, for instance, you'll want to verify that your pre-turn TIR is less than the amount of brass you want to remove, or you won't get a consistent result.

Specialized tools have their place, even if they're a bit dusty when we turn to them.
 
I agree that a concentricity gauge isn't the most critical tool to have at the reloading bench, and is likely to see infrequent use. But there are a few tools that fall into that category. I haven't used my flat-anvil micrometer in a while, either, since most reloading-related tasks call for a ball mic. But I wouldn't want to be without it.

And there are a few advanced handloading situations in which measuring TIR is important. If you use an FCP IDOD/ADOD for neck turning, for instance, you'll want to verify that your pre-turn TIR is less than the amount of brass you want to remove, or you won't get a consistent result.

Specialized tools have their place, even if they're a bit dusty when we turn to them.
I agree completely. There are a number of tools on the bench that rarely get used, but if I need them, I’m glad I have them. One of the first other tools that comes to mind is a bullet puller. I rarely use it. It just kind of hangs there, but every now and then I screw up and need it.
 
Last edited:
An oldie but a goodie...
Runs brass as well as ammo.
NECO gage.

View attachment 1380909

While I completely agree that runout and concentricity is a tricky subject and it turns out there are more important things to worry about..., I think it is best to learn it early
I've had a NECO concentricity guage for many years along with a Sinclair and one I made.
Over the years, my use for a concentricity guage has moved to identifying problems with new dies, etc. And in that aspect, they can be very valuable tools.
For hand loaders looking to purchase a quality concentricity guage, I'd opt for the new Redding Slant Bed or try to source a vintage NECO unit.
FWIW, there's an extra NECO unit with the GEM indicator here if anyone is interested. ;)
Good shootin' -Al
 
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