Just started loading a 6.5CM using imr 4350... It is a slightly compressed load because of it being a stick powder... Is that a problem... I normally run ball powders and you don't run into that problem... Anything special about running a compressed load..??? Still need about a half grain more powder but I can hear slight crunch.... If a tap the cases on the bench to settle the powder there's no crunch.... Just making sure there's no safety concerns.... I understand the book actually shows compressed loads with this powder... So far the load is outstanding but just a little slow.... Showing absolutely zero pressure signs or any problems...
Compressed loads
- Thread starter Rsadams
- Start date
Use a long drop tube with your powder funnel, 10-12" and trickle powder in slooooow! If still a problem you can get a cheap electric tooth brush and touch it to the case body as you trickle.
TTE
Gold $$ Contributor
As long as there is not issues with pressure, compressed loads are not a problem (IMO).
Depending on how much compression there is, you may need to put a crimp on your brass.
Drop tubes should work/help ... as well as vibration to "settle" the powder in the case.
You can also leave the powder funnel in place (with the cartridge in the loading block), place an index card on top of it (holding it all together) and tap the side of the case with something that will not mar your case but heavy enough to get the powder to settle inside the case.
There are many ways to get powder to settle/pack inside the case.
Depending on how much compression there is, you may need to put a crimp on your brass.
Drop tubes should work/help ... as well as vibration to "settle" the powder in the case.
You can also leave the powder funnel in place (with the cartridge in the loading block), place an index card on top of it (holding it all together) and tap the side of the case with something that will not mar your case but heavy enough to get the powder to settle inside the case.
There are many ways to get powder to settle/pack inside the case.
I prefer slightly compressed loads, they perform better in my experience and get better ES/SD. But if it makes you feel better, if it's just slightly compressed, a drop tube will most likely get it to the point of not being compressed.
I use the Area 419 funnel with their extensions. The extensions come in 3" segments and you can screw them together to get the length you want...it should be over 6" though to work well. I use a 12" drop tube for 300 Blackout because it can be a chore sometimes stuffing powder in that little case.
If you rarely run into this, the cost of the funnel/tubes may not be worth it...but it's good to have on hand for when you do need it.
I use the Area 419 funnel with their extensions. The extensions come in 3" segments and you can screw them together to get the length you want...it should be over 6" though to work well. I use a 12" drop tube for 300 Blackout because it can be a chore sometimes stuffing powder in that little case.
If you rarely run into this, the cost of the funnel/tubes may not be worth it...but it's good to have on hand for when you do need it.
First two loads one was 2450 (39gr ) next was like 2520 (40gr )... Using of course imr 4350... I just need to slow down pouring and tap the cases on my bench a little to settle the powder... The powder is still down at the shoulder and I was surprised to hear a crunch of course the 140gr 6.5 CM bullets are long and I am seating them at book of 2.700 , the books actually like 2.698 ( Hornady manual ) for the 140gr SST bullet... Just testing for speed right now no other tuning.... Factory federal gold medal 140gr SMK was like 2640fps I am shooting for between 2550 and 2600 for a hunting load here in Texas... We don't shoot more than 200 yards.... Seriously the first shot at 2450 was a little low right because the barrel was just cleaned to bare metal but the next shot was dead center bulls eye and the next shot went exactly through that shot I couldn't believe it.... The 2520 group was a half inch which so far is what this Tikka seems to want to shoot.... Only shooting three shot groups because of the barrel on this Tikka T3X is a light weight barrel and the rifle will be strictly used as a white tail/ hog hunter... The exact speeds , I would have to pull out my laptop because I have erased them off my lab radar already...k
There's was zero pressure signs , I mean nothing... I have seen some with factory loads though about one per box , got a heavy bolt lift with one round of the federal gold medal and one ejector mark with a box of Hornady black I was using for a short barrel break in... This makes me think I seriously don't need it flying that fast so why do it... The gun will never see anything past 400 yards and most shots around 100ish.... I understand why they are loading that way but I will never even see a thousand yard range...
Unfortunately imr 4350 is what I could find I am just trying to pour it like a ball powder I think... I have tapped it on my table and it helped to the point some made no noise at all... I will spend a little more time on the next batch for testing.... As far as speed if it's close to 2600 its all I need even 2550 so I should be good... I think going from 40 to 40.4-5 should do it.... I definitely don't need a hot round for hunting here in Texas...
When I tried to pour it back into its canister because I was using a charge master I plugged up the little funnel and thought right then , ok that's exactly what's happening in the case....
The other option you may want to explore is seating the bullet out a bit further. If your COAL is 2.700" you should be able to get another .100" and still function in your magazine. This would reduce your crunch maybe eliminate it or allow you to get a bit more powder and velocity. I haven't loaded the SST bullets, so use caution if you elect to change your seating, you may gain some precision or lose some. You should have plenty of throat to avoid the lands, but it would always be good to check that.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
A drop tube is helpful, not exactly needed, as long as you’re using any funnel.
It’s not so much the height that you pour from, but the speed.
Assuming you’re dropping your charge into a pan. Just hold it 6-8” above the funnel and trickle the powder down the funnel. With a bit of practice you can pretty well drop it straight down into the case. Drop the charge. Tap the case a couple times with your finger and call it good.
It’s really all about a consistent pour. Slow enough for the powder to settle into its own place. You really can’t go slow enough.
Not uncommon to pick up a full grain without it touching the base of the bullet.
Probably should add that heavy compression and low neck tension often results in the bullet being pushed out over time. It’s worth letting the cartridge set over night and measure length again.
It’s not so much the height that you pour from, but the speed.
Assuming you’re dropping your charge into a pan. Just hold it 6-8” above the funnel and trickle the powder down the funnel. With a bit of practice you can pretty well drop it straight down into the case. Drop the charge. Tap the case a couple times with your finger and call it good.
It’s really all about a consistent pour. Slow enough for the powder to settle into its own place. You really can’t go slow enough.
Not uncommon to pick up a full grain without it touching the base of the bullet.
Probably should add that heavy compression and low neck tension often results in the bullet being pushed out over time. It’s worth letting the cartridge set over night and measure length again.
A lot of the book coals for the same grain bullets is .100 longer... ( 2.800 ) .... I plan on moving out when I get ready to tune for accuracy... I will never be shorter than .2.700 so I should be good.... I plan on testing 40.5 and 41 grains next , kinda I big jump but still below book max so I think it will be fine... Federal gold medal was 2620ish so if I can get 2580 I think it will be perfect....
I just loaded a few with a full grain more but slowing down and tapping the case on the table and it helped a bunch.... I think you and everyone else are 100 percent correct... I need to slow way down plus a little tapping to settle the powder.... I only use imr 4064 in .308 but it's not a compact charge in that big case... The 6.5 with imr 4350 is a bit small but unfortunately it's a versatile powder and what I could get right now.... Most powders I use for other rifle charges are ball not stick.... I will work on it and pick up a funnel with a drop tube when I get a chance....
I was really just wondering if there was any big safety concerns with a slightly compressed charge because I have never ran one before.... I loaded a few more and I am pretty sure 41grains will get me to 2580 and that will be perfect as long as it shoots well... That's about 40 fps slower than factory and good enough... I have three pounds of this imr 4350 , when it's gone I will go to the other powder everyone uses.... First I have to find some... I personally think some of the factory loads are to hot and just kill barrel life if you're not using it for the extreme long range it was designed for but that's just what I have seen so far I am new to the caliber..
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Something to keep in mind, you said you also load ball powders. Even more so with a fine ball powder, if you drop it right, it almost won’t compress. If you have a lot of leverage with your press, You might just put a nice ring around the nose of you bullet before you realize the powder just isn’t giving. Especially if you have powder to the bottom of or in the neck.
The only “danger” in a compressed load is a pressure spike. What I have noticed, and a few others have confirmed they’ve seen it happen, is watch your velocity. If it stalls out, doesn’t increase at the next load or two in a ladder stop. There’s a good chance the next increase will be a big one. As in primer is starting to flatten, primer is blown. The flattening of the velocity increase curve, seems to precede a jump.
Ok great advice thank you... So far just a little tapping and changing the pour has greatly improved over just dumping it in....
41.4 grains gave me a average muzzle velocity of 2695 in my 25” barrel for a reference. That was with Sierra 140 sbt set at touch with Winchester large primers and Hornady brass.
ETA: I just noticed my load may be on the maximum side of Hodgdon load data currently. I had loaded these as a stout buck load and I’m not recommending this load in someone’s else’s rifle.
ETA: I just noticed my load may be on the maximum side of Hodgdon load data currently. I had loaded these as a stout buck load and I’m not recommending this load in someone’s else’s rifle.
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Nothing mysterious about a compressed load. The biggest potential issue is if it's compressed enough, it can possibly alter seating depth by pushing the bullet out. Yes, more neck tension helps with that up to a point, of course.
Once again thanks everyone for your time and experience.... Took out the new rounds this morning loaded at 40.5gr of imr - 4350 shooting through a Tikka T3X lite they where 2600 which is exactly what I wanted and shot a three shot group measured at .3ish center to center with mitutoyo calipers... Absolutely no tuning of seating depth.... WOW these Tikka rifles will shoot.... I think I am done with the 140gr SST now to move on to 129gr SST and see if likes them.... I have some 140gr SMKs to play with once I am done with the SST for my hunting load.... Maybe some hunting Berger bullets after that just to try , I heard real good things about them from all of you.... Just shocked the Hornady SST shot so well....
Right now I am using some small rifle primer federal gold medal brass simply because I have tons of small rifle primers now to move on to my large rifle primer starline brass and test a few and the 140gr load will be done... Hopefully it will be close to the small primer brass speed wise...
Right now I am using some small rifle primer federal gold medal brass simply because I have tons of small rifle primers now to move on to my large rifle primer starline brass and test a few and the 140gr load will be done... Hopefully it will be close to the small primer brass speed wise...
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