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Competition BR Cleaning

StephenPerry

Cleaning For Competition
Cleaning one's equipment during and after competition or practice needn't be a complicated item. You need to develop a regimen that you agree with and refine it as you learn more.
At the Range after the last Match I run 2 wet patches of solvent through my barrels and take them home wet.
A few days later I start my double cleaning. I use Russ Haydon cleaning guides. I have the same 2 I bought in 1994. Changed the o-rings once on each. I use Dewey cleaning rods and still have some Parker Hale. Use a pair of Hart cleaning rod pliers to keep everything tight. I use short stiff rods to stay away from the arch that long rods put in a stroke. I have 25+ BR barrels and have never put a gullywamp in my barrels from bad stroking. Stay with a good rod guide and short rods for long barrel life.
At home I put 2 more wet patches of solvent through the barrel and let set 20 minutes. For patches I use Pro Shot 1 1/8 for 22 cal, 1 3/8 and 1 3/4 for 6mm. By solvent I use either old Hoppes No 9 with Sweets added or my home brew. My home brew is 3 cans of GM Top Engine Cleaner, 1 can of Kroil oil, and just enough white ammonia to top of my bottle. Stir well and often. After the 20 minutes I load up a good brass brush with solvent and brush 8 times or so. Repeat leaving the barrel wet for 20 minutes. Patch out with rubbing alcohol and dry patches. Now for the Sweets. Use 2 wet patches of Sweets let set for 20 minutes if the come out light blue or less you are ok for copper. If dark blue give it 2 more patches of Sweets wait 20 minutes and test again. After the Sweets run a wet patch of solvent and set aside for a day or two.
Come back and run through the same routine minus the Sweets. Leave barrel wet when you go back to the range.
OK for the nieve and Gomer clan I patch out the barrel at the Range first with a patch of rubbing alcohol then several large dry patches before I go to the line. I go to the line with a a dry barrel. Some run an oil patch before they shoot. I don't. I leave the lube on my bullets this does the same thing. I don't have to shoot 3 bullets to condition the barrel before I go to the Record target. At the range I only wet patch between matches using rubbing alcohol and solvent.But when I decide to brush I use a mixture of old Hoppes and Sweets patching out with alcohol patches a couple and a dry patch 1 3/4.
Competition requires concentration on loading and cleaning. Never have much conversation while doing either. For those curious take a whiff of old Hoppes No 9. This is the way benchrest smelled when I started.
Last clean the bolt. Solvent on a paper towel works fine. Use a stiff brush either bronze or nylon to clean the bolt face anything else that has attached itself. Take it apart often checking for primer pieces and dirt. Spray the main spring with white lithium spray.

Proper maintenance of BR guns and equipment pays dividends during your shooting career.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
Good post Stephen.
I have been fooling around trying to get a good system for cleaning and reloading at small matches with two relays.
I have tried not cleaning until the range change, cleaning every match, and every other match.
I also am trying to streamline my reloading gear so that is faster.
All this is in an effort to not feel rushed.
Right now I haven't noticed a difference in how my rifle shoots between any of the different cleaning schedules.
 
There are many different cleaning regimens that work. Different barrels and disciplines will require different approaches to the job.

However, one thing we don't advocate, based on conversations with barrel-makers, is shooting the gun while ammonia-laced solvents remain in the bore. Lothar Walther has done some testing on their barrels. They have found that, if ammonia residues are left in the bore, these can combine with the fired propellant residues,,under the heat and pressure of combustion), to create caustic chemical vapors that can etch the bore. The damage, Walther has observed, can be minimal,limited to a small section of bore), or can be quite extensive. Once the damage is done, the only way to restore the barrel is with mechanical lapping with JB or similar compound.

Most of the barrel-makers we've talked to,including Broughton, Krieger, and Walther) recommend getting strong ammonia solvents out of your bore before shooting. This can be done with dry-patching, mopping, or using neutralizing agents.

Short-range Benchresters have higher standards of accuracy than most shooters. However, for the rest of us, you may find that a few wet patches of GM-TEC, Mpro-7, Bore-Tech Eliminator, or Slip 2000 Carbon Killer, followed by Wipe-out foam,WO) will do the job. The wet patches get most of the "soot" and carbon out, allowing the WO to work faster. Wipe-out contains no ammonia. After the dwell period, simply dry-patch the WO out.

Here are two lengthy articles about cleaning. The second surveys a number of top shooters, barrel-makers, and smiths regarding their favored cleaning methods. Both articles are worth a read:

http://www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html
http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html
 
Hi, long story below, sorry in advance ;)

I'm coming from a different angle, and our match today may be enlightening... or not :) I live in europe, Netherlands actually. You know, next to Germany, above Belgium, across the channel from the UK. Windmills, wooden shoes, dutch boy with his finger in some kind of hole, legal pot. Well, that's the US stereo-type of us anyway ;)

BR here isn't quite like in the US besides shooting rifles, bragging and having a good time. We have a single "relay" where we get five targets on which to fire 5x 5 shots plus any sighters/foulers. All this in a single 40 minute stretch.

Our biggest problem turns out to be mirage as the barrel has no time to cool off during the relay. We can't reload on site, we have to preload all ammo at home. We don't have concrete tables, just make-shift wooden tables or we bring our own portable constructions. An upside is that we don't have open fields/ranges, so all our 100m BR matches are shot in quasi tunnel conditions. Only the 200m+ matches are shot "outside", but still we are somewhat shielded from gusts as law requires that no bullet be able to go outside the range,see the Week #1 gun-of-the-week for a picture of our ranges).

Today was another 100m BR match. I let me father shoot my rifle,and he beat my sorry ass with my own rifle/ammo, grrr!!!). He shot in the relay before me, so yeah, I was shooting a barrel I could boil an egg on, it had just gotten 33 rounds through it before it was my turn to send 25 rounds plus sighters downrange. The 15-20 minute recess between relays we get does not allow for a lot of cooling. Just got a quick cleaning when no one is left on the range. A couple of patches with Butch's and a few dry patches to get ready.

What I am trying to get to is that we have little or no time to clean, so we really don't do it during a relay. We shoot 25 rounds plus sighters with preloaded ammo. No rock-steady tables. Yet our aggs,top 5 shooters) are in the 0.20-0.25 with smallest groups down in the 0.120 range.

Okay, the same guys are not always winning, sometimes we screw up and open up the aggs. But in general we are getting a decent level of competition without many of the "benefits" in the US competitions. That has made me wonder about things like cleaning and finding a tune.

Granted, we are way off of US standards, as I could have a 17lbs Light Guns shooting to the left of me and a 22lbs F-Class rig to my right. This while I shoot a 10.5lbs LV rifle :) But hey, that's the BR we have over here.

PS: My current PPC barrel has 4750+ down the tube and is still doing 0.25 aggs when I am up to it. No, it won't set any records, and Tony will not even use it in his tomato patch most likely. But after so many rounds, accuracy is not that far down the cr_pper that it will not hold it's own in a match.

Anyways... this is my story.
 
Jim,

Don't be too modest. At the recent San Gabriel BR School there were quite a few world-class shooters with first-rate rigs. Conditions were a little shifty but not really gusty or nasty. The small group for the day was a 0.134" at 100 yards. The winning 5x5 agg was .2524", and Lou Murdica did that with pre-loaded 220 Russian ammo.

So don't think that you're that far off the pace in terms of American standards.

We hope to do a test in June with a new PPC barrel and see how many 5-shot groups we can shoot,without cleaning) before accuracy falls off noticeably. This will be done in a tunnel to minimize wind effects. I'm predicting a low-round-count barrel can hold .170 grade accuracy to 60 rounds or more without cleaning.
 
San Gabriel BR School Aggs
Don't let anybody be fooled by the aggs at the San Gabriel BR School most of the better shooters were coaching, check the upcoming May Shoot. The .25 agg will probably be behind the low .15 aggs. I expect 3 aggs in the 1's and 10 aggs in the below .25 range. A .25 agg at 100 says you made some mistakes it is not an outstanding agg. Let it be said Let it be Done.

Stephen Perry
San Gabriel BR Shoot Director
 
Having a range with no wind conditions is one of our few bonuses, I think this explains the good aggs. Given the same range conditions we have, I think many of your shooters will still beat us. You can't replace 15-20 years of experience :)
 
Jim
At San Gabriel as you saw from the BR School these guys are pouring money into their equipment like no tomorrow. New barrels all the time. Used to be there I would win regularly with my 22 PPC with low 2 aggs not much anymore. Consider, all the winning Matches were in the 1's. Some of these guys have become 100 yd pyranah's. Of course things change when we head to Visalia in June for some good old fashioned 200 yd comp. Then I get a piece of the action.
The bar has been raised in BR aggs all over the Country. I think equipment management has a lot to do with it. Course you have to have some nice equipment to manage.
Stephen Perry
 
All the more reason for a class for "the rest of us". The time has come for the "Accurate Rifle" that has been talked around on this forum. Allie Euber said at one of our matches that he is shooting against guys who buy as many as 25 barrels to get two "good" ones. At the rate BR is going, in a couple more years only guys with six-digit incomes will be shooting.
 
Reed
It may seem that the wealthier shooters have an advantage especially in buying barrels. I have found shooters go in rhythms. When they get comfortable they seek change. Their new rhythm might take twice as long as the previous one. Also most shooters don't know when they have a good barrel and tend to keep upping their loads looking for a shooting zone. While all this is going on generally no winning is going on. My suggestion is always chamber barrels in pairs. One barrel will shoot better than the other. Shoot your lesser barrel at smaller shoots saving your better barrel where you want it to count. One plus in having 2 barrels ready to go is your perceived lesser barrel you are going to shoot tougher. Reason is you want to challenge yourself with a lesser barrel. Barrels are not tomato stakes. Give each barrel the cleaning care I mentioned earlier and stay away from loads that have you compacting the powder to seat the bullet.
Stephen Perry
 
Mr. Perry,

Thanks for your contributions. Concerning your cleaning routine, do you clean between each 5,plus sighters) shot match, or do you clean after the 25 aggregate? If you clean in between the matches, do you use the identical process as you do between the aggregates? If not, how does your process differ?

Thanks!!

Mark
 
Mark
I patch out with either solvent or rubbing alcohol after each Match. I highly recommend the rubbing alcohol be used as most everything comes out of the barrel with its use and you return to your POA in your first shot. If you know you have a barrel that coppers consistently try some JB on a wet patch. The point is Mark the heavy brushing after each Match is not necessary and could cause damage if done without care. Some of our best shooters in the BR sport use massive brush cleaning after each Match but I doubt if they know why they do it. A guy on a budget needs to take care of that one good barrel he has. I'm not a believer that a good barrel gets shot to death but rather is cleaned to death. Read my thread again and see how to take care of barrels after a day of shooting.
Stephen Perry
 
StephenPerry said:
Mark
I patch out with either solvent or rubbing alcohol after each Match. I highly recommend the rubbing alcohol be used as most everything comes out of the barrel with its use and you return to your POA in your first shot. If you know you have a barrel that coppers consistently try some JB on a wet patch. The point is Mark the heavy brushing after each Match is not necessary and could cause damage if done without care. Some of our best shooters in the BR sport use massive brush cleaning after each Match but I doubt if they know why they do it. A guy on a budget needs to take care of that one good barrel he has. I'm not a believer that a good barrel gets shot to death but rather is cleaned to death. Read my thread again and see how to take care of barrels after a day of shooting.
Stephen Perry
Click to expand...

Mr. Perry,

Thanks, that is close to what I am currently doing. I am fortuante to have a couple of Krieger barrels that hardly copper foul at all.

Up until a few months ago, I was at the extreme other side of cleaning, only punching the bore every 50 rounds or so. I was not noticing a large decrease in accuracy, but I was getting an occasional flyer towards the end of the string.

The last few times I have been practicing, I thought I would try something new. This is just punching the bore after every match, but only using two VFGs wet with Kroil, and then two dry VFGs. Nothing more. Then at the end of my shooting session, I would clean as normal.

My normal cleaning is probably on the light side anyway, by most standards, only three VFGs wet with Butches, three one-way passes with a bronze brush soaked with Butches, one more wet VFG, couple of dry VFGs, then a couple VFGs wet with Butches Gun Oil, then a couple dry VFGs.

Anyway, my new "process" seems to have sure cut down on the flyers and kept the gun shooting well for the length of the session. I really had no return to zero problems, one sighter shot and the next shots would go right into the group.

I have been using the VFG felt cleaning pellets available at Brownells, and I sure do like them. I think they help, along with the Lucas, to keep the rod centered and from hurting the bore. They sure seem to get things cleaned up also. I like the tight fit they offer, and feel they do a better job than simple patches.

You mentioned you leave the lube on the bullets. I have been shooting Bob Cauterucio's bullets, as you know Bob leave the lube on, but I have been delubing them. You think you should just leave it on huh? That would sure be easier :-)

Any additional suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
 
"My suggestion is always chamber barrels in pairs. One barrel will shoot better than the other."

Stephen, that's one of the most sensible and uncontestably logical things I've ever read about precision shooting. Yes it's an added expense, but when you thing about the time and cost of load development and trying to get a barrel to shoot, this really is smart.

We hear all the time about some guy who spends a year chasing his tail and then he finally gets a new barrel and everything falls into place.

Also, by ordering two at the same time, you avoid a long wait in the event your first barrel dissappoints.
 
this is a great thread. it has answered many questions that I have thinking of. this past weekend I attending my first lv/hv match and had a great time. I was cleaning between every relay,solvent, patch, brush, etc.) because it seemed like everyone was cleaning the heck out of their guns. i thought several times, why the heck am I doing this? next match i think i will just patch out between relays, forget the brush. i may even get crazy and not do anything between relays and see what happens. i never clean like that while practicing and have never shot enough to see increase in groups, but tend to shoot less than 50 rds while doing so. thanks for the many tips, keep them coming!
 
Frye
I would recommend you try the cleaning at home and patching after each Match with rubbing alcohol or solvent. Funny thing though yesterday at the San Gabriel IBS Shoot while shooting my 22PPC rail I was patching all the way through till Match 5. I went with solvent in Match 4 but chose not to patch for Match 5. I shot a .087 group my small group for the day.
Stephen Perry
 
Great shooting Stephen. Love that zero group.

For those who have been following the site over the past 18 months, you'll note that we advocate a "conservative" cleaning regimen. That means monitor what YOUR barrel demands in terms of accuracy and not going overboard. Brushing may not be necessary at all, or just limited brushing after a day's shooting.

Each barrel is different of course, but we keep hearing positive stories from guys who have extended their cleaning intervals and cut down on the brushing.

To get a variety of viewpoints, I suggest you read our "Great Debate" article: http://www.6mmBR.com/borebrushing.html

brushdebate2.gif


We surveyed smiths, barrel makers, and a number of top competitive shooters,from a variety of disciplines). There certainly are a range of opinions, but the short-range Score Shooters, 600-yard BR guys, High Power Guys, and event the 1K shooters,like Shehane) are cleaning less aggressively these days.
 
Moderator
I have talked with some of the guys at San Gabriel that have gone to nylon cleaning brushes. Sounds interesting. When I started BR in 1975 bronze bristle brushes were the norm. Matter fact I still have some from then. They were were made by a company called Brite Bore. I bought them from old man Kelbly, George's dad. Bronze core copper bristle brushes are by far the most common brush used today in competition barrels.
I feel whatever cleaning method you use do it right. Cleaning rods have destroyed more barrels than any bullets do.
Stephen Perry
 
Jeff
Take a look in the Articles Archive. There are two nice articles on bore brushing and bore cleaning. I especially like to hear what the barrel makers and gunsmiths have to say. Different shooting disciplines have different needs for maintenance. In one way or the other they all work even my way.
Stephen Perry
 
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