competing in Fclass with electronic targets

[swed6.5]

This post is just my opinion, and is not intended to hurt sales of electronic targets.
I feel that part of the game is equal time shared working the pits, extra time delays between relay changes give more chances of weather switching, waiting for targets to return to up position, and a stamina test to run around and still get on the gun and show how well you can do. Well I have seen a couple of people who have greatly improved there scores because of being able to more rapidly send rounds down range, I don't believe scores of match's with electronic targets should be ranked the same as others who don't have them. Mostly I cant believe the nationals will use them? Sorry again if I have dampened anyone's cheerios.

 

[chkunz]

I am one of the old shooters and I have been to the pits. When I die and got to hell they will send me to the pits. When you do not have to go to the pits you can do all of the socializing you desire back in the assembly area behind the ready line.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I can see electronic targets improving scores. It will make it more like benchrest. I am sure they can build in a delay though. One positive is that everyone will get equal pit service. I personally hate pit duty, but I still think the electronic targets are strange

 

[Zilla]

They will have a 7 second delay at Lodi.

 

[Killshot]

Way too early to judge how it will be right now.

Its positives and negatives will undoubtedly be shown; a couple that jump to mind....
Pro:
No waiting for a slow puller, target repair or scoring line judgement calls
No pit duty, faster relay changes, shorter matches

Con:
Can't see how the wind is affecting your competitor's shots

I won't miss the Pits, if I wanted exercise I'd shoot in PRS matches!

 

[280man]

To many cons to list right now. Time will tell but from the reports I've gotten from around the country I'm not impressed

 

[maxpower]

I can see electronic targets improving scores. It will make it more like benchrest. I am sure they can build in a delay though. One positive is that everyone will get equal pit service. I personally hate pit duty, but I still think the electronic targets are strange

Everyone will not get equal pit service if you are on a faulty target. Some Electronic targets are not as accurate as others in shot placement, showing erratic shots in some cases, not showing shots at all at other times.

 

[wolley]

Then there's the whole issue of the Konigsberg not having scoring rings.
So far all Etargets used for Fclass will be Silver Mountain? I'm asking.

 

[Tempest]

Unless they changed something, I shot on the Kongsberg a few years ago and they have score rings.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

If I really cared about winning, I would prefer paper to the electronic targets.

Like most electronic products, there will be products that are a better match or a worse match to specific applications. Products with bugs will, of course, be a worse match.

One concern is that shots that fail to register may be considered a "miss" with electronic scoring, even though it will be ambiguous whether the bullet missed or simply failed to register.

But I'm not really a fan of pit duty on hot summer days, so on the whole, I think I'll likely prefer attending the matches with the electronic targets, in spite of their imperfections.

 

[Down South]

I have a question, what if you're at a big match (Nationals etc) and the electronic targets are giving trouble? What's the backup plan? Folks come from around the world to shoot these matches and if the targets aren't working right there will be some pissed off folks i would imagine. Hopefully this never happens but i was wondering what would happen if something like this were to occur?

 

[Jdne5b]

I have a question, what if you're at a big match (Nationals etc) and the electronic targets are giving trouble? What's the backup plan? Folks come from around the world to shoot these matches and if the targets aren't working right there will be some pissed off folks i would imagine. Hopefully this never happens but i was wondering what would happen if something like this were to occur?

Hope you got a good zero. Line your cars up and put the headlights on the targets, you'll be there a while.

 

[savageshooter86]

At Blakely Ga when we were running the system, I didn't see any issues and matches were run well. No targets were down or not reading shots. Worked great.

Now some other local clubs running them with all the issues possible. Not sure why

I really like them. Matches don't take all day using the electronic targets. Let's you see more data during your string

 

[Scott Harris]

This post is just my opinion, and is not intended to hurt sales of electronic targets.
I feel that part of the game is equal time shared working the pits, extra time delays between relay changes give more chances of weather switching, waiting for targets to return to up position, and a stamina test to run around and still get on the gun and show how well you can do. Well I have seen a couple of people who have greatly improved there scores because of being able to more rapidly send rounds down range, I don't believe scores of match's with electronic targets should be ranked the same as others who don't have them. Mostly I cant believe the nationals will use them? Sorry again if I have dampened anyone's cheerios.

If they implement the 7 seconds or more delay, I'd find it acceptable. If they simply allow you to run and gun with no delay between shots, then they are turning F-class into benchrest...not appealing at all. the other alternative is to convert over to pair-firing, which brings us in line with much of the rest of the world. But, who said that was a good thing!? String fire has elements of strategy that make it uniquely challenging and satisfying. We should preserve that element. This is why allowing running/gunning is so unappealing....dumbs down a tournament and makes ammunition and equipment even more important....blah!

I have no issues with eliminating pit duty, frees up time to coach shooters, shoot the breeze on the line, etc. BUT, i do think E-targets will (currently) make shooting much more expensive. People tend to only look at the acquisition cost of these systems. That is just the price of entry and the ongoing maintenance will be far greater than the purchase cost. The sun, heat, and dust out here in AZ will chew up those electronics pretty quick IMHO. At current prices, I think the technology is too expensive for the shooting community. Maybe in another 5-10 years, the economics will make sense.

 

[bsumoba]

I think the cons still outweigh the benefits. As Rick mentioned, there are too many cons right now and I would like to point out the ones that stick out to me.

Shooter shoots a shot, but there is no registered shot and it is considered a miss. But what if you are on target, scoring 10s and Xs and then all of a sudden, you throw a "miss". Okay fine, it gets scored as a miss, even though you believe as the shooter that you hit paper. I do not like the fact that you cannot challenge this by calling down to the pits and asking for a confirmation of "no hole" on paper.

So, what do you do if then you shoot another shot, same hold and everything and then you score another miss? Do you and the scorer or RO then agree that there is a problem with your target system? And do you go back and say, well hey...my other prior "miss" is due to the target system as well and that should be credited back to me.

How is it determined that you have an issue with your target system? Will the RO's be experts in debugging or troubleshooting the systems?

And if my target system is having issues, why should I have any faith that all other shots I took on that target are scored correctly on that relay? If it is registering a miss, then could it just as easily register a 9 when in fact it should be a 10 or X?

 

[savageshooter86]

The "missed shot" happened to me. Drilling Xs and all of sudden no registered shot. Called RON. He directed me to send another round as he watched. Still didn't Register. He had me shoot next shot on target next to me. Came up X dead center. He had me finish my string on that target.

As far as misses or crossfires they were able to monitor and could find missed shots that were so far off the target. They could monitor entire firing line and see every shot, even if it was so far off to not register on your target

This was at Blakely Ga. I really think it had to do with the knowledge and understanding of the match director and everyone who set the targets up each time

 

[bsumoba]

The "missed shot" happened to me. Drilling Xs and all of sudden no registered shot. Called RON. He directed me to send another round as he watched. Still didn't Register. He had me shoot next shot on target next to me. Came up X dead center. He had me finish my string on that target.

As far as misses or crossfires they were able to monitor and could find missed shots that were so far off the target. They could monitor entire firing line and see every shot, even if it was so far off to not register on your target

This was at Blakely Ga. I really think it had to do with the knowledge and understanding of the match director and everyone who set the targets up each time

So, now we have 30-50 shooters on the line. There is a high probability that this will happen with the amount of relays and targets in play. Sounds like a potential issue with people having to wait for a RO. And, we are now having to shoot "sighters" downrange to see if it still occurs? Well, what if the next shot registers as a "X"? So you are going about shooting 10s and X's and you register a miss, but your next shot is a X. So, are you credited with a miss because it appears the target system is working, or does the RO credit you with a shot because the last shot was a X? Who's decision is that?

And, if we have to go onto another target board, that means I have to pick up all my gear and reset myself on another target, possibly at the end of the line. And, do I get a clean slate? Because if my target system is acting funny, I would argue that I have no confidence that any of my shots were accurately scored.

You can see how this can snowball...

 

[savageshooter86]

So, now we have 30-50 shooters on the line. There is a high probability that this will happen with the amount of relays and targets in play. Sounds like a potential issue with people having to wait for a RO. And, we are now having to shoot "sighters" downrange to see if it still occurs? Well, what if the next shot registers as a "X"? So you are going about shooting 10s and X's and you register a miss, but your next shot is a X. So, are you credited with a miss because it appears the target system is working, or does the RO credit you with a shot because the last shot was a X? Who's decision is that?

And, if we have to go onto another target board, that means I have to pick up all my gear and reset myself on another target, possibly at the end of the line. And, do I get a clean slate? Because if my target system is acting funny, I would argue that I have no confidence that any of my shots were accurately scored.

You can see how this can snowball...

Yes. I don't see them working in huge competitions. But they are great in local club matches for sure. Maybe down the road they will have use in big matches

 

[Keith Glasscock]

If they implement the 7 seconds or more delay, I'd find it acceptable. If they simply allow you to run and gun with no delay between shots, then they are turning F-class into benchrest...not appealing at all. the other alternative is to convert over to pair-firing, which brings us in line with much of the rest of the world. But, who said that was a good thing!? String fire has elements of strategy that make it uniquely challenging and satisfying. We should preserve that element. This is why allowing running/gunning is so unappealing....dumbs down a tournament and makes ammunition and equipment even more important....blah!

I have no issues with eliminating pit duty, frees up time to coach shooters, shoot the breeze on the line, etc. BUT, i do think E-targets will (currently) make shooting much more expensive. People tend to only look at the acquisition cost of these systems. That is just the price of entry and the ongoing maintenance will be far greater than the purchase cost. The sun, heat, and dust out here in AZ will chew up those electronics pretty quick IMHO. At current prices, I think the technology is too expensive for the shooting community. Maybe in another 5-10 years, the economics will make sense.

The updates to the NRA rules state that the delay is an option for the shooter. I was thinking more along the lines of a mandatory delay. Nobody is going to voluntarily take a disadvantageous delay. I can't wait to see what comes of nationals. I probably can't go because of work, but I'll be watching intently.

 

[Puzzaz01]

Here's the solution..... Place a paper target in front of the E target. Now if the E-target fails to register a shot, simply look at the paper to confirm or rule out as a miss! Ta-Dah.... Problem solved.
Ok, I'm sure this will stir the pot.