Compare terminal performance of the Berger Hunting VLD vs. Accubond please.

[Steve Wilson]

I deer hunted for many years with a Ruger in 6.5 x 55, using 125 grain Nosler Partitions. Most every one fell dead right there from a broadside or neck shot. My nephew and I are now using a pair of custom 6.5 x 284's with 140 Accubonds. Both rifles are 1/4 minute guns and well suited to the long shots in Northern Missouri.

I'm thinking of trying the Berger Hunting VLD's but am curious about their terminal performance on deer, specifically with neck and broadside shots. I don't take high shoulder shots. The Accubonds are very accurate and give excellent, controlled expansion, results.

How are the Hunting VLD's working out for you?

 

[Preacher]

The 115 VLD's work very well in my 25/284 XP-100 on deer sized critters.
They seem to kill stuff just as quick, if not quicker than the 140 Accubonds in my 7mm SAUM..
The VLD's also seem to have a accuracy edge over the Accubonds..

 

[BigDMT]

I deer hunted for many years with a Ruger in 6.5 x 55, using 125 grain Nosler Partitions. Most every one fell dead right there from a broadside or neck shot. My nephew and I are now using a pair of custom 6.5 x 284's with 140 Accubonds. Both rifles are 1/4 minute guns and well suited to the long shots in Northern Missouri.

I'm thinking of trying the Berger Hunting VLD's but am curious about their terminal performance on deer, specifically with neck and broadside shots. I don't take high shoulder shots. The Accubonds are very accurate and give excellent, controlled expansion, results.

How are the Hunting VLD's working out for you?

The Berger VLD's are one of the best hunting bullets available IMO. I've killed 13 animals with the 140gr VLD from a 6.5 Rem Mag. Perfect performance in every aspect. Gotta have at least a 1 in 9" twist to shoot them accurately though. The 130gr VLD is supposed to work really good too. I'm contemplating trying the 130 this year myself. Not sure though...

 

[Steve Wilson]

Are you guys talking about the Hunting VLD's or the target version? I am asking about the hunting ones in comparison to the Accubonds.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[bozo699]

Are you guys talking about the Hunting VLD's or the target version? I am asking about the hunting ones in comparison to the Accubonds.

Thanks for the replies.

Steve,
Even the bench rest long range guy's are using the hunting vld's not the target at least the champions that I shoot with do, they are shooting Dashers with 105 VLD's some shoot the 108's which only come in the target version. I shoot both depending on which rifle, I use the the 140 accubonds in my 7mm-08 and 210 hunting VLD's in my .300wm they both have yet to fail clean kills for me, always 0ne shot one dead animal. hope this helps some.
Wayne.

 

[BigDMT]

Are you guys talking about the Hunting VLD's or the target version? I am asking about the hunting ones in comparison to the Accubonds.

Thanks for the replies.

Both the target and hunting versions work well. When I started using them for hunting, there was no "hunting" VLD's. They were ALL just target VLD's that even said "not recommended for hunting" on the box. But boy oh boy do they work well.

So when the Hunting VLD's came out, I tried them once and they worked just as well terminally. Shot 3 antelope and 1 whitetail buck with the hunting version.

But I went back to the target VLD's the next year because I was pushing the hunting vld's so fast that I had a jacket on the hunting version separate on one bullet when shooting at a doe antelope at 465 yards. It was the first shot of the day from my rifle and on an ice cold bore too. When I fired, we could hear it making a really fast and loud "pulsating whizzing" sound as it tumbled through the air way over her back and missing her cleanly. Luckily she didn't spook more than lifting her head and the second round sent down range held together just fine and dropped her in her tracks with a perfect shoulder shot. It could have been just one fluke bullet that had a jacket flaw, I don't know, but if I got another one when shooting at a trophy buck or bull elk I would be devastated. So I went back to the target version with the thicker jacket and haven't looked back.

Was pushing the hunting vld at 3210+ fps when I had the jacket separation incident. I even run the target vld's slower now, but that's just to increase case life.

 

[Steve Wilson]

Wayne,

It's good to hear that the Hunting VLD's are so accurate. I shot two deer with 142 MatchKings when I first built my 6.5 x 284 "Proper Deer Rifle." Yes, I read on the box that they weren't recommended for hunting but fellows at the range said they were using them on deer. One cautioned that his results had varied. Sometimes great, sometimes they just poked holes in them.

I shot a real nice sized doe that was trotting across a pasture, broadside, at about 50 yards. She never even flinched, trotted another 10 yards and stopped. Then stood there switching her tail like there wasn't anything wrong at all. I couldn't believe I missed a gimme shot like that but figured I had. So, I shot her in the neck while she was standing there. Again, no reaction. She just flicked her tail a few more times and calmly walked off into the brush a few yards from where she stood.

I drank a cup of coffee and smoked a cigarette while contemplating how a cracker jack shot like me could miss two chip shots like these. Then I climbed down from my buddy stand and went to take a look. There she was, dead as a stone, about 15 yards from where she entered the edge of the brushy timber edge. Two huge exit wounds; one behind the off shoulder and one in the neck. Both bullets had penetrated most of the way through before they expanded, then violently came apart.

I don't know if Berger still has the video clips of hunting with their VLD's that I watched on their site a few years ago. But they were all high shoulder shots. Of course the animal is going to fall down when you take out both shoulders. It may be a regional or personal preference thing but I don't do high shoulder shots. I am not criticizing those hunters who choose to shoot an animal in the shoulder, it's just not for me. I shoot them in the heart/lung region or in the neck. That's why I asked, in my original post, how the Hunting VLD's were performing with those type of shots and if they were controlled expansion.

Thank you all for your replies so far.

 

[NateG]

Just for correctness's sake, back before there was a separate "target" and "hunting" line of VLDs, they were all on the old jacket--the one now called "hunting". To deal with a problem with bullets coming apart under certain conditions (worn 6.5-284 barrels being one), they made a thicker jacket and called it the target line. The Hunting line is just the old, standard, jackets.

I'm not aware of any reason to expect one to shoot better than the other--other than possibly blowing up the hunting/standard/thin jackets, while the target/new/thick jacket survives, of course. Also, with the exception of the 6mm 105VLD, the hunting and target bullets are externally identical. (The 105 Target was changed a while back for manufacturing reasons--all the others are the same, whether standard or thick)

 

[kyreloader]

Berger VLD hunting bullets are known for penetrating a few inches 2-4 inches then become unglued. I would not describe these bullets as controlled expansion at all. The hunting VLDs will straight line penetrate through about anything for the first 2-3 inches(shoulder/scapula,etc), then violently open up. The article in Rifle Magazine (http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Barsness%20Article.pdf) outlines the testing period and how Berger decided to market them as hunting bullets. John also talks about shooting feral goats trying to shoot shoulders to make the bullets fail.

I have used the Hunting VLD in my .25-06. I killed my Kentucky whitetail buck last year at 300 yards with 115g VLDs starting at 3000fps. I hit him through the lungs and he made it about 50 yards down the hill before expiring. I had a huge blood trail even though I hit him a little high in the lungs. When I approached the deer, he actually had lung tissue in his mouth, he had actually coughed up a lung. I had an exit hole the size of a softball. I was very happy with the performance that I had seen with that bullet.

 

[bozo699]

Steve,
I am one of those shoulder shooters you talked about, I believe if you destroy there running gear even if there not dead and they almost always are I can at least find them, I live in steep canyon type country and do most of my hunting up on the top but it's usually right close to the breaks so when I shoot them I want them to go down immediately, I don't want to track it for a day or two in those steep steep brushy canyons I want it down up on top where I can get my vehicle to to retrieve my animal, I started using the berger bullets because I was making ultra long canyon to canyon shots and the bergers were very accurate and still killing when it got there but I use the behind the shoulder (Traditional shot placement ) because there not bonded and there not a controlled expansion bullet, I don't care what others say there just a hollow point bullet, the accubond seem to be a true controlled expansion bullet and they are bonded, all the ones I have pulled from bodies have performed very nicely, you never recover a berger except in fragments. If you have a good set of lungs you can yell loud enough to almost kill a deer, there thin skinned small framed but a elk is all together different, very thick skin, large frame and just a totally different critter, you can shoot there heart and lungs clear out of one and they can run another mile, I just want them down as soon as I pull the trigger, I prefer my .338-378 weatherby Magnum with 250 grain bonded bullets, they go done with both shoulders broke! or I prefer my .58 cal muzzle loader with 750 grain steak busters same story, whap,....down elk but I am getting older and don't like the recoil so for long shots I like my .300wm with the 210 Bergers, for medium range shot I love my little 7mm-08, I have killed deer out to 500 or so and almost 400 on a elk, I don't believe the little 7 has enough knock down power so I try for a traditional shot placement and the accubonds have performed great and extremely accurate, I killed a bear at 887 yards with the little 08 and the accubond and it dropped in it's tracks and rolled about 200 yards down the hill and stopped in some brush, took me a hour and a half to get to him and he was still where I last saw him, I hate looking for wounded game, I think either one you go with will work fine and especially since your a traditional shot type guy,...best of luck to you.
Wayne.

 

[Hondo64d]

I shot this buck with a 6.5 130gr Accubond. Hit him through both lungs and he ran maybe 30 yards before going down. Exit wound was maybe half dollar sized.

...and this pig.

with this 6.5 130gr accubond.

The pig measured 60" from the tip of his nose to the base of his tail and 30" from the bottom of his front hoof to the top of his shoulder. Recovered the accubond from under the gristle shield on the off side.

Shot this buck with a 6.5 130gr VLD.

Very slightly quartering away at 230 yards. No exit wound and he ran maybe 50 yards give or take.

...and this coyote with a 6.5 VLD.

He was quartering to me. Bullet exited and I found a chunk of lung the size of a card deck behind the song dog.

... and this bobcat with another 6.5 130gr VLD.

He was bout 130 yards. VLD left a baseball sized exit.

...and this pig with a couple of 6.5 130gr VLDs.

He jumped up in the tall grass at about 15 feet from me and I was able to get crosshairs on him by about 25 feet and put one in him. Though poorly placed, that pretty much stopped him within a few feet and I put another in him to finish. Neither exited and I did no autopsy, but he was instantly too sick to keep moving.

From my use of VLDs, it is my impression that animals just make fewer steps after being hit with a VLD than with other bullets I have used. On pigs, I am not always picky about shot placement. Often times they have been running through mesquites or brush and if I can get cross wires on pig hair I am happy. Even with some very poorly hit pigs, they simply have failed to make it very far. That is saying a lot, as having shot a few, pigs have really impressed me with their tenacity and will to live.

I would not hesitate to shoot any non-dangerous game with a VLD at any range I could place the shot well. If you want to eat shoulders, don't put a VLD through them. Just as easy to put it a little behind the shoulders and the animal will still not make it far. I would not take hard quartering shots on anything I had any respect for (most things except pigs). On animals I admire, I would rather wait for a good angle, and do that pretty much no matter what bullet I use. If you are inclined to take hard quartering shots, I'm not sure a VLD would penetrate a full paunch and get to the vitals. If you are concerned that a bullet has to look like the perfect mushroom after recovery, the VLD is not for you. If you think the bullet should always exit in order to make a quick kill or leave a profuse blood trail, the VLD may not be for you. I will say that when a VLD DOES exit, it makes a HUGE blood trail. Haven't needed to follow a blood trail made by a VLD, though. Anything I've shot with them just doesn't go very far.

Just thoughts based on my own observations...

John

 

[bozo699]

Well put John and the proof is in the pudding as they say,
Wayne.

 

[kyreloader]

Here is the exit wound of my buck with the skin on:

With the skin off:

Here is the small entrance wound noted with the skin off:

My blood trail:

(Figured since we are sharing pictures-I would add my own).

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

My go-to deer hunting bullet in a 6.5X06 has been the Hornady SST. The 129SST will emulsify everything north of the diaphragm on deer rather well, the largest being 242# dressed. On shots between 20-280 yards, it has been pure poison on them. Exits on rib cage shots (broadside, double-pneumothorax) are typically golf ball size. Animal recovery distance is very short and they die quick. The 140SST gives a slightly smaller exit, but that is to be expected. Still a quick killer. Both have penetrated average-sized deer from angles while taking out the shoulder going in or out.

Have tested quite a few of the 140 Accubonds in my 6.5X06 and my friends 6.5x284 this summer. Very good accuracy and they perform stellar in wet pack testing at 100/200yds with no core separation whatsoever. Will be interested to see how they perform on big meat critters.

Am not a fan of bullets using conventional pressed core/jacket as my results afield have been inconsistent with the exception of the Hornady line of products (the Interlock may be part of it). Yes, the animals have died from solid hits to the center of the lungs, but the problem comes when you begin taking angled shots to intersect the center of the kill zone....either quartering to or away.

 

[Steve Wilson]

Well, this has turned into quite a learning experience for me. I wasn't expecting to hear that the VLD's performed so well with traditional shot placement. The 142 grain Match Kings left me with a sour taste as to target bullet's performance on game and I sort of lumped all target bullets into the same pile after that. That's what I get for assuming and the reason for my question of how they were working for you guys. It sounds like I would be fine with either the VLD's or the Accubonds we are currently using.

Many thanks to all for taking your time.

 

[tclaunch]

I have never shot any game with a VLD, but feel blessed that Nosler went to all that trouble to design maybe the best game bullet for medium sized critters, the Accubond. I have shot 13 deer/antelope from 130 yds to 510 and have not recovered one yet. Several were with a hotrod wildcat I came up with using the 338RUM case necking it to 7mm, with speeds at 3700 fps the 140 Accubond is a killer. That rifle was a speed goats worse nightmare!!

 

[BigDMT]

Steve,
I made a shot very similar to your sierra MK story, but with much more desireable results when using the 140gr vld. I shot the doe at about 80 yards off hand 3 years ago with my 6.5 rem mag when still had the bullets going 3210 fps . Placed the wires right on the kill zone and squeezed. She dropped right where she was standing. Huge whitetail doe too. Bullet diameter size entrance hole, 1 1/2 inch exit hole, top half of heart missing and lungs completely liquified to soup. So I had really good luck with traditional shot placement on deer at close range .

I also have great luck with shoulder shots. snaps that spine right in half and they drop like a freight train fell on them from the sky. I have never had to finish an animal that took a high shoulder shot from my 6.5 rem mag. They have already expired by the time I get there. One time a buck was taking his last breath after Igot to him from 120 yards away, but I didn't have to finish him. The shoulder shots burn up some upper shoulder and upper backstrap meat because the bullet does not usually exit and causes much more damage when hitting the heavy spine bones. But their is NO tracking if the shot is placed correctly on center of upper shoulder about 4-6 inches below the hairline of their back. And like Isaid, they will most likelybe dead when u get to em.

 

[bozo699]

Steve,
You can have good and bad luck with any bullet, my son killed a black bear with a 6BRX 107 SMK at 705 yards one shot and down,...traditional shot placement, I shot a deer three years ago with my muzzle loader 50 cal, 405 grains of soft white lead,........................................7 times before it expired, it was thanksgiving afternoon or after the 6the one I would have roped him and hauled him to the vet and had him sewed back up, I was starting to feel sorry for him and very angry at myself and my rifle,....1st 5 in the traditional location but a little high and it missed the vitals, all 5 were clover leafed and some of the off side shoulder was broke yet he didn't go down until number 5 the one to the neck when I caught up to him the last time,...didn't want to miss with a head shot and break his nice horns, waited 25 minutes in the worse snow storm ever finally got impatient and took the head shot, about 30 yards away that was # 7 and it did the trick but good lord I have used that same bullet for probably 15 years with 100% success up til that point,..405 power belts all lead so the best can fail and the worse can give excellent results. I have a good friend that put three 180 grain accubonds out of his .300wm into a elk at around 300 yards, and lost him and the next year two into another and found him still alive and had to put a third in him to finish him off so he can't bad mouth Accubonds enough and I know Jake is a excellent shot but I think you will be happy with them and if I were you and I wasn't making ultra long shots I would opt more to the Accubonds rather then the Bergers but that is just me, as stated in past posts I have had excellent results with both and wouldn't hesitate pulling the trigger with either one in the chamber.
Wayne.

 

[BigDMT]

Steve,
You can have good and bad luck with any bullet...
I shot a deer three years ago with my muzzle loader 50 cal, 405 grains of soft white lead,........................................7 times before it expired, it was thanksgiving afternoon or after the 6the one I would have roped him and hauled him to the vet and had him sewed back up, I was starting to feel sorry for him and very angry at myself and my rifle,....1st 5 in the traditional location but a little high and it missed the vitals, all 5 were clover leafed and some of the off side shoulder was broke yet he didn't go down until number 5 the one to the neck when I caught up to him the last time,...didn't want to miss with a head shot and break his nice horns, waited 25 minutes in the worse snow storm ever finally got impatient and took the head shot, about 30 yards away that was # 7 and it did the trick but good lord I have used that same bullet for probably 15 years with 100% success up til that point,..

Wayne, your story does not depict an example of bullet failure. It rather illustrates the importance of proper shot placement. I've had to finish a handful of animals off after neck shots. If you don't hit that spine, the neck shot is no good at all IMO. And I've had animals run from shots at vital zones that hit their mark a little higher than I planned then had to finish them off. Lost a bull elk during archery from an arrow that hit just above the vitals as well.

Although that buck definitely had a vicious will to live, I don't think it was a problem with your bullets. And when using really heavy muzzle loader bullets like that, they don't expand like smaller caliber bullets going twice the speed, so shot placement is even MORE important for you when using that rifle.

 

[bozo699]

Steve,
You can have good and bad luck with any bullet...
I shot a deer three years ago with my muzzle loader 50 cal, 405 grains of soft white lead,........................................7 times before it expired, it was thanksgiving afternoon or after the 6the one I would have roped him and hauled him to the vet and had him sewed back up, I was starting to feel sorry for him and very angry at myself and my rifle,....1st 5 in the traditional location but a little high and it missed the vitals, all 5 were clover leafed and some of the off side shoulder was broke yet he didn't go down until number 5 the one to the neck when I caught up to him the last time,...didn't want to miss with a head shot and break his nice horns, waited 25 minutes in the worse snow storm ever finally got impatient and took the head shot, about 30 yards away that was # 7 and it did the trick but good lord I have used that same bullet for probably 15 years with 100% success up til that point,..

Wayne, your story does not depict an example of bullet failure. It rather illustrates the importance of proper shot placement. I've had to finish a handful of animals off after neck shots. If you don't hit that spine, the neck shot is no good at all IMO. And I've had animals run from shots at vital zones that hit their mark a little higher than I planned then had to finish them off. Lost a bull elk during archery from an arrow that hit just above the vitals as well. Although that buck definitely had a vicious will to live, I don't think it was a problem with your bullets.

Branden,...isn't it?
I know it was a shot placement problem, although I felt they should have done a little better then they did, I am a better shot then that also, found out the site had failed and I was shooting high on every shot but the neck shot, that was kind of my whole point good bullets can fail while others can get the job done but if you don't do your part it doesn't really matter what your using, but thank's for re clarifying for me
Wayne.