• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Color Case Hardening Question

tred1956

tred1956

Gold $$ Contributor
Update: Decided it is not worth the risk of warping but THANKS for all the input.

I have acquired a Flatside Contender frame and am considering having it color case hardened. My first thought was Turnbull but they no longer do original Contenders only G-2 and Encores. What I would like to ask is does anyone have personal experience with any other smiths that color case harden? All recommendations or opinions appreciated.

For info Marty at Haus of Arms (who handles Turnbulls TC firearms) says that the reason Turnbull no longer does Original Contenders is that it warps the frame about 50% of the time. While I trust Marty & Turnbull, I have wanted a flatside Contender CCH for a LOOOONG Time LOL

Some smiths advertise lower temperature Color Case Hardening. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone. What do you all think?

Thanks for reading
Doug
 
Last edited:
I watched a Gunsmith in East Houston, (he has past on) take regular cold blue and a small torch and do an impressive job of color on a vintage ‘03 Springfield. However, all it did as color the steel, it did not harden the surface as does a true color case hardenning procedure.

I suspect the Gunsmiths advertising the lower temperature color case are looking for more of a cosmetic affect that any actual improvement of the part‘s wearability.

Any time you heat a piece sufficiently to cause carbon to impregnate into the metal’s surface, and then quench it, there is always the possibility of the metal changing shape.
 
tred1956 said:
I have acquired a Flatside Contender frame and am considering having it color case hardened. My first thought was Turnbull but they no longer do original Contenders only G-2 and Encores. What I would like to ask is does anyone have personal experience with any other smiths that color case harden? All recommendations or opinions appreciated.

For info Marty at Haus of Arms (who handles Turnbulls TC firearms) says that the reason Turnbull no longer does Original Contenders is that it warps the frame about 50% of the time. While I trust Marty & Turnbull, I have wanted a flatside Contender CCH for a LOOOONG Time LOL

Some smiths advertise lower temperature Color Case Hardening. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone. What do you all think?

Thanks for reading
Doug
Click to expand...
I wouldnt' think a gunsmith would have a proper furnace to carburize. He probably sends it to a heat treater. It's a waste of money.
 
Last edited:
Vikters legacy gunsmithing has done some for me. The CCH seems just as nice as the Turnbull stuff. As others have said if Turnbull says it's risky and won't even do it then I'd say that's a pretty good indication it's not worth trying and anybody else even willing is going to say no guarantee and it's yours if it warps.
 
If you're really wanting a color case hardened appearance without the risk of actually changing the properties of the metal there are products available that provide a similar surface finish.
 
I wouldn't even consider a flat side, G2, or Encore. Just me but the only firearms I like to see CCH is on a original not refinished Winny that left the factory with it 100 yeaars ago.
 
tred1956 said:
I have acquired a Flatside Contender frame and am considering having it color case hardened. My first thought was Turnbull but they no longer do original Contenders only G-2 and Encores. What I would like to ask is does anyone have personal experience with any other smiths that color case harden? All recommendations or opinions appreciated.

For info Marty at Haus of Arms (who handles Turnbulls TC firearms) says that the reason Turnbull no longer does Original Contenders is that it warps the frame about 50% of the time. While I trust Marty & Turnbull, I have wanted a flatside Contender CCH for a LOOOONG Time LOL

Some smiths advertise lower temperature Color Case Hardening. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone. What do you all think?

Thanks for reading
Doug
Click to expand...
If it's a collector item you destroy it's value by color case hardening. Just like rare coins don't polish or alter them in any way.
 
No, those that know understand the difference between CCH and chemical colors. To CCH part(s) are "packed in a crucible with carbon rich, organic material, such as bone charcoal, wood charcoal or charred leather, and then heated in a crucible. in heat treat oven or 'furnace' to temps above 1333F, and left to soak for a prdetermined amount of time, and then quenched. If leather is added, it needs to be 'old', as new tanning methods use heavy metals in the tanning process, which are not good for the CCH process. The organic, carbon rich materials are tightly 'packed' around the part(s). Chemical coloring, to simulate the colors CCH can produce, are just painted on. I have seen simulated case colors done by using RIG grease lightly coating the 'part' and using a oxy/acet torch, with a slightly carburising flame make "colors". The part is not hardened in this method, just 'colored'. Painted on chemical color does not harden parts, either.
 
If you own Contender frames you know that the frames are fairly easy to warp. TC themselves chambered barrels in cartridges that would warp a frame. Once warped, the TC frames are junk. A known 50% chance of warping a frame is just too rich.
 
I have carburized and hardened a lot of parts, large and small; most not gun related. Materials I used included bone meal, powdered milk, and fishmeal. Really, anything which would make decent charcoal. I cooked at around 1600 degrees for three or four hours, then let it cool overnight. Hardening was done in another container or a stainless foil wrap in which I packed a little newspaper to burn off any oxygen and prevent scaling. The part(s) were heated to around 1350 and quenched in water soluble oil mix. I didn't do any color casehardening except for fun. For color, the quench was in aerated water (an eight inch tube, two feet long, with air fed into the bottom. It was the quench which produced the color.
I saw one of Martin Hagn's fine single shot receivers which had warped terribly when case hardened by a well known practitioner. He had brought it too me to ask if I could anneal it without any scaling, so he could try and straighten it. I did but he couldn't straighten it well enough to suit him. His response was to say, "I'll just have to make another one to fit the stock". What he did for hardening on the replacement, I can't recall. I suspect the first receiver was made with a steel unsuitable for the process. Martin would occasionally just get a piece of plate to make the receiver from. I recall that he once bought a chunk of AR plate, by accident, and had to give up on it because it was just too hard on his files! I don't know how that plate would have reacted to case hardening! WH
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Classified Ads

Forum statistics

Threads
165,970
Messages
2,207,584
Members
79,255
Latest member
Mark74

Share This Page

Back
Top