Colloidal Graphite\Neo lube #2 and pressure issues?

[Monday shooter40]

I've been fire forming some new Peterson Dasher brass. I've been using neo lube #2 in the necks because they are virgin cases and I wanted to try this stuff inside some case necks to see how it performed. My first 12 rounds were 31.6 gr of Varget over a 105 hybrid. Shot great. No problems. Tight group, good SD, 2865fps and no pressure signs. So then I loaded 25 with 31.5 gr of Varget over a Hornady 105 BTHP. My speeds were 2850ish and I was getting some light ejector marks. I loaded down to 31.2gr. Dropped my speed to 2820 and still getting ejector marks. Loaded down to 31.0. Still got ejector marks. Loaded down to 30.0 gr and speeds of 2720. And now I'm getting hard ejector marks and increased bolt lift.

I've fired about 60 cases with neo lube in the necks and this is the only thing I can attribute to increasing pressures when lowering powder charges.

I'm going to scrub the barrel down and load some without neo lube. I will report back.

Anyone else experience anything like this?

 

[SKWERLZ]

I’m not sure about your barrel length but you’re getting a similar speed as my 6bra so that seems reasonable.

I kinda doubt it’s the graphite in the necks causing your troubles.

Doesn’t the Hornandy bullet have a lot more shank than the hybrid?

I run a patch of colloidal graphite in my freshly cleaned barrels, really helps my barrels get back to normal faster especially my barrel for solids.

 

[Monday shooter40]

I’m not sure about your barrel length but you’re getting a similar speed as my 6bra so that seems reasonable.

I kinda doubt it’s the graphite in the necks causing your troubles.

Doesn’t the Hornandy bullet have a lot more shank than the hybrid?

I run a patch of colloidal graphite in my freshly cleaned barrels, really helps my barrels get back to normal faster especially my barrel for ssolids.

26" barrel.

My Straight BR can run 30.0 gr of Varget under a hornady 105 without pressure signs.

I think it built itself a huge "graphite ring" in place of a carbon ring. The barrel is soaking now. I'm gonna load some tonight and shoot tomorrow.

 

[565tinfitter]

I’d check fired brass against virgin brass to determine how much expansion you’re getting. Depending on how your bullets are seated you could be getting thrust against the bolt head when your brass expands. Thoughts on seating depth and virgin brass usually has the bullet into the lands with a moderate load to help control fireforming.

 

[6Creed73]

How are you applying the graphite? I use graphite all the time and have never had an issue, but it doesn't take much at all. Ideally, you should dip the neck in graphite coated ceramic balls. This will ensure a light coat. If you dunk directly in the graphite without the ceramic media, it tends to clump and stick causing too thick of a coat.

I wouldn't think it would cause pressure issues, but you mentioned a huge graphite ring, so thought I'd mention it.

 

[Monday shooter40]

Neo

How are you applying the graphite? I use graphite all the time and have never had an issue, but it doesn't take much at all. Ideally, you should dip the neck in graphite coated ceramic balls. This will ensure a light coat. If you dunk directly in the graphite without the ceramic media, it tends to clump and stick causing too thick of a coat.

I wouldn't think it would cause pressure issues, but you mentioned a huge graphite ring, so thought I'd mention it.

neo lube #2 is in alcohol. I was dipping, letting it dry, then wiping off the exterior. I'm sure it was too much now. But tomorrow's tests will prove if it was or not.

 

[6Creed73]

Neo

neo lube #2 is in alcohol. I was dipping, letting it dry, then wiping off the exterior. I'm sure it was too much now. But tomorrow's tests will prove if it was or not.

Ah, ok...I thought you were using a powder.

 

[moondog]

I've been using Neolube on all my barrels for a little over a year now with good results. Fire forming a New batch of Lapua 6.5x47 brass, I had a lot of tension variations. I applied the Neo lube with a Qtip to the inside of the necks, resolved the seating issues. (I was too lazy to run a mandrel through them) . Shot great with a mild load of Varget. No bolt issues, no pressure issues. You have something else going on.

 

[Chaotik]

I've been using Neolube#2 for a couple of years in my 6 dashers; 32.6 gr Varget and 105 hybrids. Never had an issue with pressure or heavy bolt lift after thousands of rounds. Seems unlikely to be the Neolube.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I’d check fired brass against virgin brass to determine how much expansion you’re getting. Depending on how your bullets are seated you could be getting thrust against the bolt head when your brass expands. Thoughts on seating depth and virgin brass usually has the bullet into the lands with a moderate load to help control fireforming.

That’s a suspicion I have as well.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Neo

neo lube #2 is in alcohol. I was dipping, letting it dry, then wiping off the exterior. I'm sure it was too much now. But tomorrow's tests will prove if it was or not.

Dip a q tip in and use that to lube necks instead of dipping.

 

[KMart]

I've been fire forming some new Peterson Dasher brass. I've been using neo lube #2 in the necks because they are virgin cases and I wanted to try this stuff inside some case necks to see how it performed. My first 12 rounds were 31.6 gr of Varget over a 105 hybrid. Shot great. No problems. Tight group, good SD, 2865fps and no pressure signs. So then I loaded 25 with 31.5 gr of Varget over a Hornady 105 BTHP. My speeds were 2850ish and I was getting some light ejector marks. I loaded down to 31.2gr. Dropped my speed to 2820 and still getting ejector marks. Loaded down to 31.0. Still got ejector marks. Loaded down to 30.0 gr and speeds of 2720. And now I'm getting hard ejector marks and increased bolt lift.

I’d check fired brass against virgin brass to determine how much expansion you’re getting. Depending on how your bullets are seated you could be getting thrust against the bolt head when your brass expands. Thoughts on seating depth and virgin brass usually has the bullet into the lands with a moderate load to help control fireforming.

Follow Tinfitters advice about measuring the virgin brass against fired brass.
I am forming some 6br Alpha brass now. The difference between the fired Lapua brass that I have been using, and the Alpha, is .009". The virgin Alpha brass is .009 shorter, base to shoulder, than the fired Lapua brass that fits my chamber.
You may have a similar situation with the Peterson. And I too am getting some heavy bolt lift with a mid range charge of varget. The only that is saving me from ejector marks is that the bullets are hard jammed into the lands.

 

[Homerange]

#1 lesson in reloading is 2 same weight but different projectiles WILL give different pressure curves.

Developing a load with some hybrid and changing to another projectile qualifies for a complete restart and workup.
Been there done that.......

 

[Monday shooter40]

#1 lesson in reloading is 2 same weight but different projectiles WILL give different pressure curves.

Developing a load with some hybrid and changing to another projectile qualifies for a complete restart and workup.
Been there done that.......

I completely understand that different bullets have different pressure curves. I've had both of these bullets going faster without pressure problems in Lapua brass in the same barrel. My first test for this brass was a full grain of powder under my match load.

Follow Tinfitters advice about measuring the virgin brass against fired brass.
I am forming some 6br Alpha brass now. The difference between the fired Lapua brass that I have been using, and the Alpha, is .009". The virgin Alpha brass is .009 shorter, base to shoulder, than the fired Lapua brass that fits my chamber.
You may have a similar situation with the Peterson. And I too am getting some heavy bolt lift with a mid range charge of varget. The only that is saving me from ejector marks is that the bullets are hard jammed into the lands.

OK team. I screwed up. I was 99% percent certain that I checked headspace with this brass and I was sitting at .004, which I thought wasn't going to be a problem for forming. But after you guys said something a few times, I double checked just to be sure, because that would make sense to me if I had excessive headspace...... And I do! I don't know where I mis measured the first time, but I'm at around .011 of headspace! Thank you for the suggestions.

Though this does not really explain my first 12 rounds at 31.6gr and a 105 hybrid. Those should have had healthy ejector marks too....

Another reloading lesson learned. Write down your measurements and double \ triple check them.

I still scrubbed the barrel down last night.

I loaded 5 with out neo lube, 30gr varget, 105 hornady @ .040 off.
I loaded another 5 without neo lube, 30gr varget, 105 hornady @ + .025 jam

Will report back.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I completely understand that different bullets have different pressure curves. I've had both of these bullets going faster without pressure problems in Lapua brass in the same barrel. My first test for this brass was a full grain of powder under my match load.

OK team. I screwed up. I was 99% percent certain that I checked headspace with this brass and I was sitting at .004, which I thought wasn't going to be a problem for forming. But after you guys said something a few times, I double checked just to be sure, because that would make sense to me if I had excessive headspace...... And I do! I don't know where I mis measured the first time, but I'm at around .011 of headspace! Thank you for the suggestions.

Though this does not really explain my first 12 rounds at 31.6gr and a 105 hybrid. Those should have had healthy ejector marks too....

Another reloading lesson learned. Write down your measurements and double \ triple check them.

I still scrubbed the barrel down last night.

I loaded 5 with out neo lube, 30gr varget, 105 hornady @ .040 off.
I loaded another 5 without neo lube, 30gr varget, 105 hornady @ + .025 jam

Will report back.

Different pressure impulse with the Berger’s shorter body.

With that amount of expansion I’d recommend a false shoulder.
I use a .257 reamer for a false shoulder on my 6BRA as I set headspace .007 long on purpose to gain powder capacity for the powder I planned on using.
It’s a lot more reliable and held more firmly than a hard jammed bullets.

 

[Homerange]

I completely understand that different bullets have different pressure curves. I've had both of these bullets going faster without pressure problems in Lapua brass in the same barrel. My first test for this brass was a full grain of powder under my match load.

And you changed to Peterson brass ? Different brass and projectiles are always going to bite you.
Best advice is to start from scratch disregarding previous experiences to safely work towards a load combo.

 

[Monday shooter40]

Range report:

Barrel cleaning and shooting the same 30.0gr of Varget under a 105 hornady greatly reduced visible ejector marks. You really have to look to find them. ( my last 3 peices of brass that were fired before I cleaned the barrel looked like they came out of a gas gun with raised burrs around the ejector mark.)

Loading 30.0gr + sizing the necks down with a .263 bushing + jamming .025 removed all ejector marks.

Certainly headspace was to blame here. But cleaning the barrel did help greatly..... ( and that was only about 60 rounds since I cleaned it previously) Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[Longtrain]

After many years of fire forming Lapua BR brass into a Dasher (with great success), I picked up some Peterson Dasher brass.

My headspace measurements on my fired cases are 1.243” and are resized to 1.242”. The Peterson out of the box measured 1.236”, so fire forming hopefully would bring Peterson up with my Lapua measurements. Peterson and my Lapua were measured for internal volume and the Peterson came out having less internal volume. I don’t have those numbers at my fingertips, but it was consistent with what I have read about Peterson brass.

I loaded the Peterson in .3 gr increments, well below my standard load to see how it responded as the powder charge increased. Every one of the cases showed ejector marks, not bad, but there. No matter what load was fired there were no flattened or cratered primers, no sticky extraction, no difference in the bolt lift. Just a very light ejector mark. Accuracy was fine.

N.B. When I installed the new barrel on this rifle, I added a full length ejector spring, usually I would have a very small spring and reach in and pick out the fired brass. Somewhere on the Internet I read that a strong ejector spring may contribute to such a mark. Don’t know if this is true or not, but I took a third off the spring, we’ll see if this makes a difference.

I tumbled the brass with stainless chips for 1/2 hour, brass is clean and all the ejector marks are gone.

We’ll repeat load tests with this fired brass (which now matches my Lapua measurements), and see if the marks show up. It may just be that the Peterson is softer than Lapua, as I’ve never had this issue before.