COLD BORE OR COLD SHOOTER

[Bill Norris]

Was wondering how many here have or do experience cold bore shots or is it in fact a cold shooter issue ? Please elaborate.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I build and shoot as many hunting rifles as competition rifles so I do a lot of cold bore group testing. With the barrels I use the cold bore shot goes into the group. I would not accept a barrel that put the first shot out of the group. I'm talking a fouled barrel not a clean one I dont expect a clean one to do that.

 

[XTR]

My experience pretty much matches with what Alex wrote above. At 1000 yards a Cold Clean Bore shot from a 308 usually lands about 1-2MOA low. A fouled cold barrel will put one in the X-ring if you make the right wind call.

Fouling is usually accomplished in two to thee shots.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I forgot to mention I test everything at 1k even hunting rifles, so I do expect a cold bore fouled barrel to shoot a group at that distance. Sometimes a clean barrel will shoot the first one or two much slower and they may go in the group at 100yds but they wont at longer range

 

[butchlambert]

My comp. rimfire rifle puts the first shot out of a clean and cold bore shot .750 high at 50yds. I never hunt with a clean bore. I always foul it first.

 

[FeMan]

In our monthly club tactical matches, we have a cold bore shot at each match. The cold-bore is a 1 moa target at distances between 200 and 425 depending on COF with 30 seconds to drop and shoot. Even though most shooters have at least a 1/2 moa rifle (most much better) and can shoot well, the cold bore hit percentages are right at 30%. In watching this over the years, I have learned that the cold bore misses are almost exclusively the shooter. I have really practiced the cold bore shooting and got things pretty well ironed out for me but it took a long time to get the rifle, bipod, bag and self set up like I do into a string of fire.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I Hunt with, a Fouled / Cold Barrel and set, the Rifles POI with, a Fouled / Cold Barrel and only clean the Rifle when, necessary and that's, AFTER the Hunting season, is over !
I'm checking my 200, 500 and 700 Yard "Zero's",.. now.
Nice and "cool" Temp's, lately so can, shoot and wait 10 -15 Minutes, shoot again !
I take a couple of Rifles and switch back and forth but, "Focus" on, my Elk Rifle !
I only need to shoot a FEW shots, as I already know WHAT, the Rifle and Load are capable of.

 

[Old Navy]

I am old enough to remember Bob Milek's articles for Peterson Publishing 30+ years ago. I was just into hunting back then. His method to make sure the first cold fouled bore shot from his hunting rifle went where he wanted it to was to fire one shot and the next day one more. He would repeat this until he was satisfied. I guess if you are into long range hunting with a pencil barrel this would still work.

 

[PigButtons]

Since purchasing a bore scope and making sure that there's no residual fouling, like the carbon ring in the throat, I have few if any cold bore fliers.

 

[RegionRat]

Like the others, I won't accept a hunting rig that throws a cold bore shot one place, and a group another.

After all, I don't know of elk or deer who stand around while you take sighters... YMMV

 

[butchlambert]

There is a difference between a clean cold bore and a fouled cold bore.

 

[Ned Ludd]

From a clean bore, my F-TR rifles typically only take two fouling shots to come up to the expected velocity. As far as I can tell, they also group well from that point on. Nonetheless, I usually try to shoot at least a couple good groups before starting any actual testing/practice, as a baseline for the rifle/load and just to be sure I'm warmed up. There is definitely something to be said for getting the shooter as well as the rifle warmed up prior to doing anything important. The caveat with these rifles is that they all wear Bartlein or Krieger heavy contour barrels. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone when a quality MTU, Heavy Varmint, or Heavy Palma contour barrel in an ~18 lb. F-TR rifle dials in quickly and stays there even over a 20+ shot string. The same is not always true for a pencil barrel.

 

[Emmett Dibble]

Comp rifles I always test fouled and at the max round count I would expect at the end of a match. A gun that is very accurate clean or lightly fouled does you no good at the end of a match were you have to shoot off.... That is the most important shots. I have sold rifles that POA/POI change when cold to warm. Some grouped so well warm that it was tempting to use them and factor in the cold drop but ultimately not worth the hassle... (I shoot silhouette, no sighters to bury, every shot is hit or miss)

 

[mauser284]

Who shoots a freshly cleaned barrel in competition outside of BR guys?

You should know when each rifle you own needs to be cleaned based on round count and range card. Why would anyone mess with a rifle shooting fantastic groups? My F T/R rifle averages around 475 rounds between cleanings. You have to consider that a .308 Win averages 5000 rounds minimum before needing to be replaced if it has a buttoned or cut rifled barrel. If it is CHF you are looking at 20,000 rounds that is according to the U.S. Army. No reason to scrub that thing clean if it is still grouping well.

Hunting rifle on the other hand is likely another beast and likely to not get the volume of fire and likely to be cleaned before being put away every year until next season.

Other than for amusement I think it is silly to test your thin barreled mass produced hunting rifle at 1000 yards or meters unless you regularly intend to shoot that rifle at that distance. I think anything more than a 2-3 shoot group is silly too since your first shoot at medium to large game will be your best and seldom do you get more than 2 or 3 total attempts on game unless you are shooting on a flat plane with short grass, no brush and no tree's.

Other than to do initial sighting of a scope I also think shooting from a bench with a hunting rifle is comical unless we are talking P-Dog's since very very few hunters hunt from a bench when looking at all hunters in any given country in this case America. It would be like the average hunter practicing from a helicopter simulating rig at the gun range if they never intend to hunt from a helicopter. A rifles group size from a bench has almost no bearing on how that hunter will perform with that rifle prone, with shooting sticks, squatting, standing unsupported, kneeling, sitting on the ground etc.....

Ask the average guy that shoots from a bench to shoot squatting, kneeling, standing unsupported for groups and watch that 1/4 MOA group shoot up to a 10 inch+ group at 300m and 600m. At that point it makes the cold bore shot situation look trivial by comparison. Unless you do silhouette you almost never see anyone at the range standing to shoot with a bolt gun. Likewise you almost never see anyone outside of a match shooting prone at the range.

Some rifles shoot drastically different clean than fouled which is why you have fouling shots! If you do not often clean the rifle though the cold bore part really does not matter much.

If a shooter is sufficiently skilled and practiced every shot should be fairly consistent. If the shooters shooting hygiene is not consistent that is down to awareness and lack of sufficient practice. Unlike a skill that using lots of large muscles in the body like say a professional pitcher needing to warm up all the large and small muscles to prevent injury it is not to relearn how to pitch the ball. The professional pitcher has not forgotten how to through the warm up is to prevent as many injuries. Shooting a rifle well is done well be skinny weak small framed women, large fat round men, old men with pace makers and advanced heart disease and diabetes and super fit young Marines! LOL No one needs to have their trigger finger rebuilt because they blew it out during the last BR season! If anything getting the feel for the wind and mirage at an unknown location is the trickiest part of shooting.

Moral of the story though is that if you are not a BR guy do not clean your barrel until group size starts to open or consistency drops. Cold bore shot solved.

 

[mikecr]

You could dry pre-foul bores to solve this.

 

[butchlambert]

Who shoots a freshly cleaned barrel in competition outside of BR guys?

You should know when each rifle you own needs to be cleaned based on round count and range card. Why would anyone mess with a rifle shooting fantastic groups? My F T/R rifle averages around 475 rounds between cleanings. You have to consider that a .308 Win averages 5000 rounds minimum before needing to be replaced if it has a buttoned or cut rifled barrel. If it is CHF you are looking at 20,000 rounds that is according to the U.S. Army. No reason to scrub that thing clean if it is still grouping well.

Hunting rifle on the other hand is likely another beast and likely to not get the volume of fire and likely to be cleaned before being put away every year until next season.

Other than for amusement I think it is silly to test your thin barreled mass produced hunting rifle at 1000 yards or meters unless you regularly intend to shoot that rifle at that distance. I think anything more than a 2-3 shoot group is silly too since your first shoot at medium to large game will be your best and seldom do you get more than 2 or 3 total attempts on game unless you are shooting on a flat plane with short grass, no brush and no tree's.

Other than to do initial sighting of a scope I also think shooting from a bench with a hunting rifle is comical unless we are talking P-Dog's since very very few hunters hunt from a bench when looking at all hunters in any given country in this case America. It would be like the average hunter practicing from a helicopter simulating rig at the gun range if they never intend to hunt from a helicopter. A rifles group size from a bench has almost no bearing on how that hunter will perform with that rifle prone, with shooting sticks, squatting, standing unsupported, kneeling, sitting on the ground etc.....

Ask the average guy that shoots from a bench to shoot squatting, kneeling, standing unsupported for groups and watch that 1/4 MOA group shoot up to a 10 inch+ group at 300m and 600m. At that point it makes the cold bore shot situation look trivial by comparison. Unless you do silhouette you almost never see anyone at the range standing to shoot with a bolt gun. Likewise you almost never see anyone outside of a match shooting prone at the range.

Some rifles shoot drastically different clean than fouled which is why you have fouling shots! If you do not often clean the rifle though the cold bore part really does not matter much.

If a shooter is sufficiently skilled and practiced every shot should be fairly consistent. If the shooters shooting hygiene is not consistent that is down to awareness and lack of sufficient practice. Unlike a skill that using lots of large muscles in the body like say a professional pitcher needing to warm up all the large and small muscles to prevent injury it is not to relearn how to pitch the ball. The professional pitcher has not forgotten how to through the warm up is to prevent as many injuries. Shooting a rifle well is done well be skinny weak small framed women, large fat round men, old men with pace makers and advanced heart disease and diabetes and super fit young Marines! LOL No one needs to have their trigger finger rebuilt because they blew it out during the last BR season! If anything getting the feel for the wind and mirage at an unknown location is the trickiest part of shooting.

Moral of the story though is that if you are not a BR guy do not clean your barrel until group size starts to open or consistency drops. Cold bore shot solved.

Huh? What are you trying to say.

 

[pirate ammo]

Huh? What are you trying to say.

Butch, you don't take a shower for a week you think your wife's not going to put you out on the porch?
I ain't leaven a bunch of crap in my barrel.

 

[butchlambert]

Butch, you don't take a shower for a week you think your wife's not going to put you out on the porch?
I ain't leaven a bunch of crap in my barrel.

Sir, I don't reckon I was replying to you. Iffen you want to know, I clean all of mine when I'm done from a shooting session. I always foul mine before the first match or hunting skunks or whatever. Hopefully that helps.

 

[pirate ammo]

Sir, I don't reckon I was replying to you. Iffen you want to know, I clean all of mine when I'm done from a shooting session. I always foul mine before the first match or hunting skunks or whatever. Hopefully that helps.

I was remarking about the other guy, sorry you won't hear from me again.

 

[mauser284]

I want to clarify something I said with out retracting it outright.

On the topic of shooting a hunting rifle 1000m or 1000 yards. I do not think it is a bad idea to test it out to that range just because you want to or to prove that it can be done. I think it is unrealistic to to expect that from a mass produced hunting rifle or a custom hunting rifle. To use such a tool to do that as a norm is just silly it is like using an hammer to drive a screw when a screw driver or screw gun is the much better tool for the job.

To be clear outside of varmint rig all hunting rifles should be suffiently light that one could carry it from sun up to sun set every day with out taking up power lifting, body building or Olympic Weightlifting. This is what I consider a hunting rifle. The bellow is a good general description of a hunting rifle. I will concede that there is nothing wrong with including a magnum outside of this sport. I just wanted to at least put forward where I am starting my thought process.

• 3.1.1 High Power Hunting Silhouette Rifle - A hunting style rifle having a maximum weight of 9 pounds, including sights and if applicable, an empty magazine or clip. The intent of this rule is to describe a common hunting rifle. (a) Caliber: 6mm or larger, provided that no belted cartridges or Magnums are allowed. (b) Sights: any telescopic or metallic sight may be used. Scopes may not be more than 1.5 inches above the rifle, as measured from the top of the receiver to the underside of the scope tube, nor may the scope be offset from the centerline of the bore. Exception: for rifles that eject the empty cartridge case straight up and that normally use an offset scope, the scope may be offset. Any sighting device programmed to activate the firing mechanism is prohibited. (c) Stock: A hunting style stock; thumbhole-type stocks are not permitted. Attachments, either removable or permanent, are not permitted. Swivels and slings are permitted, but slings may not be used for arm support in shooting. Dimensions may not exceed those described in 3.1(d). (d) Trigger: Trigger pull shall not be less than 2 pounds. In the event of an accidental discharge, range officers shall require adjustment of the trigger or replacement of the rifle. Rifles must be equipped with a functional safety. All safety features, including any manual safety, must be functional. (e) Barrel: A hunting style contoured barrel that tapers from chamber to muzzle. Bull barrels are not permitted. A factory tuner that does not act as a muzzle brake or compensator is permitted. Maximum barrel length is 26 inches, including tuner. (See Rule 3.16.1). (f) Magazines: Magazines may not be loaded with more than 5 rounds. Exception: During a Shoot Off, single cartridge loading may be used....From the NRA.