Cleaning solvent opinions on KG1/KG12, Patchout

[drano38]

For those who have used these, what is your opinion on how well they work?
KG-1 for carbon
KG-12 for copper
Patchout on carbon

Brownells now carries KG-1/KG-12 so I may give them a try.

I’ve been trying lots of bore solvents as I’m sure most of us do, and am still looking for something better for carbon removal.
I thought Wipeout was great, until 20 applications w/ accelerator over 10 days,12 hour soak), had a ‘smith borescope it, and it was carbon black from chamber to muzzle. Barrel is a PacNor stainless supermatch.
I’ve got GM TEC, but the aroma is a little harsh and I’ve kept that to garage w/ door wide open use, or outdoors.
Yes, a borescope would be the best way to judge solvent effectiveness, but I can’t justify the $800+.

I’ve got a new Benchmark 6 Dasher barrel on order, and would like something that will clean the copper and carbon out w/ little effort.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[BoydAllen]

Try Carbout from the same maker as Wipeout and Patchout, only don't follow the directions as to brush type. Let it soak for a while,well wetted) and then brush well with a wet bronze brush. I tried it on a very black,borescoped) barrel. I did two 20 minute soaks, each followed by a good brushing. All the black was gone.

 

[fdshuster]

draino38; $800+ for a borescope? $620 delvered to my door, after the $75 rebate purchased from Lester Bruno, Phoenix AZ, for the 17" deluxe. Never regretted the purchase. Has already paid for itself many times over. Cleaning products and procedures are easily verified.

 

[chuckw2]

What about KG-12??

Anyone have any experience with it?

 

[memilanuk]

No experience w/ the KG products, but another plug for the Wipe Out stuff...

A couple wet patches of CarbOut, let it sit for a bit while I'm doing other stuff,dunno 'bout you, but I've *always* got something in the shop/reloading area I can spend 10 minutes fussing with), then a couple wet patches of WipeOut Accelerator to flush out any crud from the CarbOut, and then follow up with a couple more wet patches of PatchOut. Let it sit a little while,doing more odds-n-ends), then push a few dry patches thru. If they come out reasonably clean, I'm done. If not, well, rinse, lather, & repeat as necessary Usually not more than twice, though, even with very dirty barrels.

FWIW... I've cleaned some barrels with every copper or carbon solvent I could get my hands on, until they gave no sign whatsoever of fouling - i.e. patches came out looking pristine. Took 'em to the gunsmiths and peeked thru w/ the Hawkeye 'scope... still had copper streaks here and there! The gun shot acceptably, so after a time or two, I shrugged and got on with the shooting. The sports I shoot in don't give extra credit for who has the cleanest barrel, so as long as they go where I point 'em... it's clean enough

Monte

 

[ArtinNC]

I don't use it much any more, but keep it around. But if you really want the copper out the fastest is Sweet's . If you don't believe me do the penny test, Sweet's will be remove copper 3 days faster than anything else.

 

[Jeffvn]

My brother has been using the KG-1 and KG-12 routine on his new .308; it was recomended by our riflesmith and he has used it ever since,now nearly 1,000 rounds). The rifle is a real shooter, and it seems to work well for him.

I prefer a combined carbon and copper cleaner, and currently use Butches Bore Shine - before that Shooters Choice,I'm not sure if one is better then the other). When I think I need to use something copper specific, I go for the sweets.

JEffVN

 

[bluetentacle]

See:

http://www.6mmbr.com/BlogMay2006.html
http://www.theriflestore.com/Pictures/Copper%20Test/Main%20Page%20Information%20Copper%20Test.htm

This comparison test indicates that KG-12 is the most effective copper solvent there is, and my exprience concurs with this finding. I have personally compared KG-12 and Wipeout using the same methodology,soaking a bullet in each solution and then weighing) and found that KG-12 dissolves copper SIGNIFICANTLY faster than Wipeout. This is a very easy test to perform and I encourage all to see for themselves.

I used to be a Wipeout believer--but now I'm a convert. KG all the way!

 

[chuckw2]

Here is what keeps coming up in my mind.



Everything I read about KG-12 all of the test, everything says how great it is. Yet I see very few, in fact I have not ever seen anyone using it..


Do you think that you might be able to harm your SS BBL. with KG-12? Does the company not do a very good job advertising?


What is it?

I wish a few more KG-12 users would respond to this post...

 

[hunter74]

I have used KG12 a couple of years and, in my opinion, it's much better than Wipe Out. It doesn't have to soak more than a few minutes. If the barrel is very dirty I let it soak for 20 minutes and then patch out. If I'm not sure it's as clean as I wound like I use it one more time, and patch out right away. This works for me and I would not consider going back to Wipe Out or Forrest Bore Cleaning Foam as it's called here in Europe. Before I use KG12 I remove all the carbon fouling with break cleaning spray and brush/patches. One other thing I like about KG12 is that it seems to work on carbon fouling also. If the barrel still have some carbon it takes care of this too and then attack the copper.

In my opinion break cleaning fluid is much more effective than KG1 on carbon fouling and moly. I've used KG1 and suspects it to be dish washing soap and water

 

[mattdienes]

I agree with Boyd,use the Patch Out with a bronze brush and you won't have any carbon left.I used PO the entire 2007 season and never had a carbon problem.I did use 50BMG,Copper Killer) when finished with Patch Out to remove any Copper left over,which was hardly any.This was in a 300WSM.If you plan on not using a brush,you're kidding yourself.

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

I agree with Boyd,use the Patch Out with a bronze brush and you won't have any carbon left.I used PO the entire 2007 season and never had a carbon problem.I did use 50BMG,Copper Killer) when finished with Patch Out to remove any Copper left over,which was hardly any.This was in a 300WSM.If you plan on not using a brush,you're kidding yourself.

I have to agree very strongly about not using a brush! I've used the so-called "brushless" cleaners and have found that no matter how clean you might think they get your bore if you run a brush down the bore you'll get more carbon out.

The carbon seems to build up in the corners of the rifling and a brush is the only certain way to get it out. Prolonged brushless cleaning can also result in leaving you with a carbon ring in the throat area. That'll kill you in a match!

But please don't get me wrong. I use,and like) both Wipe-Out and Patch-Out, only I follow them up with a bronze brush and some solvent. I've also used Montana X-Treme Copper Killer,50BMG) on a monthly basis after cleaning and find that patches show little if any copper residue on my better barrels.

 

[Phasor]

This is a question for the guys using Carbout. Where are you getting this product? I have Patchout and Wipeout but cannot locate Carbout. I also have the KG products but haven't used them yet. For carbon I have been using Slip 2000, then neutraling with alcohol, then Wipeout Accelerator and Patchout. I would like to try Carbout.

Thanks for any info,

Phasor

 

[drano38]

Midway USA has Carb-out on their web page.

All, thanks for the inputs. I know we have lots of cleaning product choices, and everyone has their opinions.

Looks like I should try Patch-out or Carb-out w/ a brush.
Is that a bronze brush or nylon brush?
Might have to use up that Wipe-out can by brushing after it has sat a while.

chuckw2, good point about KG products--don't see them at cleaning benches, and rarely talked about on BR forums. Maybe w/ Brownells selling it, that could change.

Keep the comments coming. Lots of great info so far.

Thanks
drano

 

[Romulus]

Before I went to KG-12 I tried a lot of the etchants and other chemicals. I thought there should be a better and faster way to remove the copper, so I read and read until I found the KG product that uses viscosity to help clean out the fouling.

After a few years of use I have noticed a few things.

1. On well finished bores KG-12 is a joy to use. I use a nylon brush/ wet patch combo I have homemade and it works great. Then I just run a dry patch or two.

2. On rougher barrels, I first noticed KG wouldn't get all of the copper out without some work from the brushing side of things. A few times I simply cleaned my rougher bored "hunting" rifles like I clean my nicer tubes and bang my foul shot was right on. I don't have any technical explanation for this, except that perhaps the remaining copper after normal cleaning filled in the gouges that the first or first few bullets would fill in. It is a relief to have a system that puts my first shot where it needs to be.

When people hear me cleaning my gun they think I'm doing something wrongs because my patches "squeak" but there is no sign of any wrong doing. Even I wondered about it in the beginning, but a smith took a look near my 1,500 round mark and saw nothing bad at all.

I also use KG-2 if I shoot a whole lot without cleaning. I've done a rough cleaning only using kg-12 without kg-2 first and it did work, but I used up a few more patches than normal. With KG-2 and then KG-12 I only have two little operations and I'm ready to go.

 

[GarethMarijt]

I haven't used Patchout/Carb out so can't compare, but I do use KG1/KG3/KG12 and am very happy with it. Easy to use, doesn't smell too bad and no ammonia (I believe this is an important factor if you need to take your cleaning equipment on board a plane).

I have just received a copy of the Sierra Catalogue, and they have a KG bottle on the work desk in the front cover photo.

Gareth

 

[JabaliHunter]

I would not consider going back to Wipe Out or Forrest Bore Cleaning Foam as it's called here in Europe.

Forest bore foam is not the same product as wipe-out.
I don't like either of the foam cleaners, but do use patch-out and it works - supposedly better still with the accelerator too.

 

[Nomo4me]

My wide assortment of KG products sit idle on my bench - everything is done with Patchout. I wet the bore and soak for 30 minutes, then strokes with a bronze brush (one way) to break through the carbon. Then several wet patches with Patchout about 20 minutes or longer apart and finally a patch with a bit of thin oil on it.

I don't own a bore scope so can't qualify my results other than to state that my final patches are clean.

I don't know that Patchout works better at carbon removal than KG-12 but use Patchout because copper shows blue on the patch rather than gold/tan so is a bit easier to gauge by eye.

 

[superlight93]

Verified with a borescope, KG-12 is a really good copper solvent that is water based and won't knock you out from the odor.

 

[MrMajestic]

Another KG user/supporter here. I have used many, however no bore scope yet, and consider them the "Holy Grail" of cleaners. I do use the "Q-tip trick" at the muzzle and like what I see. The bore polish used sparingly does wonders however I add Kroil soaked patchings until it is all removed.