Cleaning A Barrel

[Dogbone]

This should start some lively discussion, but my question is an honest one.

How long can you shoot between barrel cleanings?

For instance, if I were varmint hunting and shot the gun a couple of times each day, how long can I shoot before the barrel needs to be cleaned?

 

[js223]

The new Lyman manual #49 has an article by Butch Fisher on 'Barrel Care & Cleaning for Accuracy'. He is the man who created Butch's Bore Shine. You may find it interesting.

I'll just mention that some of the differences between disciplines in cleaning habits are practical ones. For example, short range benchrest shooters have time between relays to clean their rifles, and even load cartridges. Whereas High Power/Prone/F-Class matches will have the shooter either pulling pits or scoring when they are not shooting. Since you are asking for your varmint shooting, I think you'll have the flexibility to choose how often to clean, since you don't have the structure of a match to deal with.

 

[fdshuster]

Dogbone: In my experience,, and as verified with my Hawkeye Borescope), it largely depends on the rifle in question. I have several factory barreled rifles that really do not start to produce sub MOA groups, until 10 to 15 "fouling" shots are fired, then I am able to continue firing w/o cleaning for 50 shots, or more. At the other extreme, several match grade barrels, by the big names) demand cleaning after 20 rounds or the groups will open-up. You must determine what works best for your, emphasis on "your") rifle.

 

[Dogbone]

Thanks gentlemen, that makes a lot of sense as far a accuracy goes. Am I too assume that leaving the crud in the barrel that is left over from shooting is not a problem? Or if it is, how long is too long?

 

[fdshuster]

Dogbone: Sorry, I should have/could have mentioned: I usually try to wet down & brush the barrel immediatley after firing, when on the range, weather permitting). It does seem to make cleaning easier, the sooner it's done, with less time and effort later required, at home.

 

[Dogbone]

fdshuster -

Could you please explain "wet down & brush the barrel" for me?

 

[fdshuster]

Dogbone: Understand that everyone has their own cleaning methods that work for them, and I'm not implying mine is the best, but it "works for me". Using a coated rod,, I like the "Bore Tech"), and a bore guide, Neil Jones, etc.), stab jag, I'll wet a patch with "Butchs', and push it thru the bore, removing the patch and stab jag, at the muzzle. Don't like to pull the stab jag back thru the bore since it has sharp corners that will catch on the crown. A second wet patch will follow. Using a tight/snug fitting bore brush, will make several passes from the chamber to the muzzle, removing the brush at the muzzle, and pulling only the rod back thru the bore. Time permitting, will give it 5 to 10 minutes of soaking time, if done shooting, will take it home in this condition), followed by 2 or 3 dry patches, and continue shooting. If, after getting all the black powder fouling out, the patches come out with the blue coloring, copper remaining in the bore), I'll wet-down the bore with "Butchs", stand the rifle in the corner, muzzle down, in a small white plastic pill bottle, top cut-off), and let it stand for several hours. The amount of "blue" draining into the pill bottle will indicate how severe the copper accumulation is. With some rough factory and military bores, may be forced to use "Sweets" to remove most of the copper-- not fun. JB Bore paste will also help in removing copper. With any high quality match grade, lapped barrel, copper fouling should not be a problem: a little will build up, but it can easily be removed. Long winded, I know, but I'm sure I've only touched on a very small portion of the subject. Classic example of "Learn by doing".

 

[Dogbone]

Thanks again! Good stuff!!

Question: Do you use a brass or nylon brush?

Also, you metioned lapping. Is this something I could do with a new factory barrel to prevent or reduce fouling? If yes, what would I use/how would I apply the lapping compound?

 

[fdshuster]

Dogbone: I prefer the bronze bore brushes, sold in packs of 12 from Sinclair Intl. Tried the nylon brushes a while back, but thought they were not as effective: bristles too soft? When I spoke of lapped barrels, I was referring to the final lapped finish that is done to a match barrel, as made by Hart, Shilen Krieger, etc. The lapping will remove the reamer and tool marks left in the bore of most all factory production barrels. See the ads for the "Hawkeye" borescope showing the circular pictures describing reamer marks across the lands & grooves, compared to the interior finish on a lapped barrel. Lilja has a very informative video on this web site, look under "barrels", and click on their video). Hart barrels offers lapping service for barrels at a cost of around $40. 1-800-368-3656. Closest I ever came to "cleaning up a rough bore" was on new Savage Mdl. 12BVSS. With my borescope I could see a 6" long streak of copper in one of the grooves. Took a worn, 6mm brush, I save them for just this purpose), wrapped 1 layer of cleaning patch tightly around it, worked JB bore paste into it, and after approx. 90 to 100 forward strokes, the whole length of the barrel), that section now remains copper free. The rifle has since been re-chambered from the factory 243 to a 6BR, and it remains one of my most accurate, trouble-free and easy to clean rifles. You can learn a lot about your rifle if you can inspect the bore "up close and personal" with a borescope-- takes out all the guess work. Careful use of JB or IOSSO, and other similar products can help a factory barrel, if its' condition is not too far gone. I suppose the professional lapping offered by Hart would also be a plus factor/ better accuracy? and easier cleaning?

 

[EAtts]

I hunt woodchucks very seriously with my PacNor 6mm BR. After every hunt where I may fire from 4 to 20 shots I clean with Butch's bore shine using only patches. After the initial crud is removed I use a patch saturated with Kroil and Shooter's Choice copper remover. I let it set 15 minutes and then use a clean patch. If it comes out blue I repeat but that rarely happens. Every few weeks I may use a treatment of JB bore shine. When fisished I patch dry then give a light application of Butch's gun oil and then one dry patch.

This barrel has never felt a bronze brush. It now has about 800 rounds through it and it will put 3 shots inside half a dime including the first shot. In the last 3 months of hard hunting it has not changed point of impact and it hits dead on one inch high at 100 yards.

I have hunted woodchucks very seriously for 40 years and this is the cleaning procedure I am now using for my chuck hunting guns.

 

[SlowpokeRodriguez]

Dogbone: Understand that everyone has their own cleaning methods that work for them, and I'm not implying mine is the best, but it "works for me". Using a coated rod,, I like the "Bore Tech"), and a bore guide, Neil Jones, etc.), stab jag, I'll wet a patch with "Butchs', and push it thru the bore, removing the patch and stab jag, at the muzzle. Don't like to pull the stab jag back thru the bore since it has sharp corners that will catch on the crown. A second wet patch will follow. Using a tight/snug fitting bore brush, will make several passes from the chamber to the muzzle, removing the brush at the muzzle, and pulling only the rod back thru the bore. Time permitting, will give it 5 to 10 minutes of soaking time, if done shooting, will take it home in this condition), followed by 2 or 3 dry patches, and continue shooting. If, after getting all the black powder fouling out, the patches come out with the blue coloring, copper remaining in the bore), I'll wet-down the bore with "Butchs", stand the rifle in the corner, muzzle down, in a small white plastic pill bottle, top cut-off), and let it stand for several hours. The amount of "blue" draining into the pill bottle will indicate how severe the copper accumulation is. With some rough factory and military bores, may be forced to use "Sweets" to remove most of the copper-- not fun. JB Bore paste will also help in removing copper. With any high quality match grade, lapped barrel, copper fouling should not be a problem: a little will build up, but it can easily be removed. Long winded, I know, but I'm sure I've only touched on a very small portion of the subject. Classic example of "Learn by doing".

Pretty good so far---now carbon removal needs to be discussed as no doubt you have seen the layering that takes place when you scope the tubes. I use Iosso for carbon and for really bad copper will use Sweets followed by a patch of hydrogen peroxide which will cause the copper to go into suspension and comes out completely.

 

[fdshuster]

Yes, I agree, carbon fouling is a problem, and for that reason I avoid using some ball powders like H380, H414 and Win.748. When the fired case necks have the ugly black stains, i know the same carbon has been deposited in the bore. A good cleaning with JB or IOSSO will remove the majority of the carbon, a very small amount may remain in the corners of the lands & grooves, but it does not seem to effect group size. For that reason I prefer the cleaner burning powders, N-133 and N-135 being some of my favorites. Although a ball powder, H335 does not seem to be as carbon prone as the others, and I will use it in my AR-15s, along with Varget, H335 for shorter distances, lighter bullets, Varget for longer distances & heavier bullets. A clubmember has a Cooper in 204 Ruger, it suddenly quit shooting, we 'scoped it and found the bore heavily carbon fouled. He went to work with JB, cleaned it all out, as verified with the borescope, and it's once again producing sub MOA groups.